On this episode of the Samson Strength Coach Collective, we sit down with Kainon Clark, Associate Director of Football Performance at Washington State University. Kainon reflects on his path through the strength and conditioning profession, highlighting how experiences at multiple programs helped shape his coaching philosophy and approach to athlete development.
Throughout the conversation, Kainon discusses the importance of moving outside your comfort zone to gain new perspectives, balancing sports science with traditional coaching principles, and tailoring training to meet the unique demands of football positions. He also shares valuable lessons learned from working alongside respected leaders in the profession and explains why relationships remain one of the most important aspects of long-term success in coaching.
Key Takeaways
- Moving between programs can accelerate growth and broaden coaching perspectives.
- Developing your own coaching philosophy requires exposure to multiple environments and mentors.
- Effective football training balances sports science data with practical coaching experience.
- Position-specific demands should influence program design and athlete development strategies.
- Strong relationships and mentorship opportunities are critical for career advancement.
- Building connections within the profession creates lasting opportunities and support systems.
Quote
“Realizing how small this industry is, but also the fun, beneficial connections that you don’t realize you get to run into. It’s always fun, but it connects you as a staff.” — Kainon Clark
Kainon Clark:
those things kind of come in together and realizing how small this industry is, but also.
the fun, beneficial connections that you don’t realize you get to run into because, you know, it’s just like any guy sitting at the bar having a good time. You’re telling war stories and everything’s great and fun, realizing, ⁓ I was in those war stories. That was a fun time. That was hilarious. Do you remember this time? Do you remember when we did that? It’s always fun, but it even it it connects you as a staff.
Samson:
What’s going on, Samson Strength Coach, Collective Listeners? On today’s episode, we have Kanan Clark, Associate Director of Football Performance at Washington State University. Kanan, thank you so much for coming on the show, man.
I’m stoked about it, dude. We, you know, so for the listener background, we met at CSCCA. ⁓ this absolute mountain of a man came up to the Samson booth and, you know, we shook hands and I was like, you look so familiar. And for some reason, we went through the connections and I I was just completely wrong. We’d never met before, but now we ⁓ officially get to know each other better. So I’m excited to dive into it.
Kainon Clark:
Heck yeah, man. Gonna be a good time.
Yeah.
He
Samson:
Well, can you just give us your background, everything through strength and conditioning, your athletic career, and then what’s brought you to Washington State?
Kainon Clark:
Heck yeah, man.
Yeah.
Heck yeah, man. So obviously I get to live the stereotypical strength coach bounce around story, but originally from a little town called Spring Hill, Kansas. pretty much if you start driving south of the Kansas City Metro, by the time you hit cornfields, about my neck of the woods. ⁓ played there, ⁓ grew up around the small town, probably by the time about five, six thousand, ⁓ did two years of junior college football at Cofferville Community College.
And no, I was not part of the TV show. That was a couple years past my prime. And then ended up finishing my last two years at Northern Michigan University up in the upper peninsula. ⁓ was a good time up there, you know, obviously grew. Division two football is a good grind, Galiak’s a good conference. ⁓ I will still say I ⁓ play in Fair State and Grand Valley in their heyday was never a fun time, but part of it. ⁓ kind of got into strength conditioning, I would say not the wrong way, but a weird way. ⁓
My actual undergrad degrees in Native American studies, ⁓ had a more emphasis in pre-law. Kind of got halfway through applications. Do I want to go to law school for a couple more years? Whereas, you know, I grew up around the weight room, you know, smaller town where I was from. I had a very fortunate to have a good ⁓ strength coach and a very good wrestling coach named Tucker Wofter. I mean, you know, he’s teaching us bass cleans and snatches, and we’re in eighth grade and that files into the program. Just something that stayed with me for a long time. And even throughout my playing career, something was the weight room, like.
Hey man, this is a safe place. This is where guys get better. This is kind of where you do the the nitty-gritty behind the scenes. And figured that was something I wanted to get back to. So, you know, got through my second to last semester of college, came into January, talked to my head strength coach at the time, Brian Poss, and he’s like,
Well man, if you want to intern, we might as well go. And threw me right in the fire. It was fun. I got to work with a lot of sports that I would have never considered, you know, got to work with football. A lot of my former teammates worked with volleyball, got to be around ice hockey, cross country ski, swimming, a lot of the things that are not the not the always football heyday. And it was a fun way to jump into it and then kind of post grad. ⁓ got to go intern at Yale with Tom Newman and they’ve a I will still say they have a phenomenal internship program.
You are gonna get a master’s degree worth of education in about three months and they’re gonna throw you right into it. And same thing with a school like Yale and Ivy Leagues, you are gonna work with sports that you’ve never heard of. I mean, I’m a Midwest kid, went out to the East Coast, got on a train for the first time, showed up in New Haven, Connecticut, and they’re like, all right, man, you’re gonna work with football on lacrosse. And also, by the way, ⁓ here’s squash in some of the other smaller sports. I’m like, all right, cool, dude. Let’s go.
It was a good time. ⁓ learned a lot in a short amount of time, made a lot of really good friends. And obviously a lot of guys I think nowadays still associate with team builder and Hawkins and bounce around the industry. ⁓ after that, ⁓ got down to Arkansas State. ⁓ I’m still saying that’s probably something that I looked out on because I looked around as an intern. All right, man, what’s the cheapest place I can live in and try to still learn something?
I lucked out because that was Pat Ivy’s last year as a head strength coach before he moved into administration roles. Got to be around those guys, learn a lot, be around him a lot, ⁓ learn how to train, almost get killed a couple of times because you know, when Pat Ivy’s behind you saying, Hey man, your first time under 650 in a while. Yeah, we’re gonna get this. You don’t need spotters. Cool coach. I’m not nervous.
Samson:
Ha ha ha.
Kainon Clark:
⁓ got through there, ⁓ got a fortunate connection to go be a paid intern at the University of Notre Dame. ⁓ that was with Matt Bayless’s staff and Bobby Steiner. Some of the guys are at Vanderbilt nowadays. ⁓ that was probably, I’ll say probably most beneficial nine months of my career just because I hadn’t really been exposed to more of that.
you know, earlier generation of strength coach where it’s intense, it’s passionate, it’s about the player. It’s not necessarily all sports, science, X’s and O’s and numbers. It’s how do you train kids? How do you have relationships, but also getting your feet in the trenches and having fun? I mean, I look back at it now of, hey man, in the office at 4 a.m. and go home by six, this is the best day ever.
Stuff that kind of follows you, you instill a great work ethic, and you get to also be around, you know, really one of the pillars of college football and be around those guys, which was a blessing and fun, a lot of good friends. And actually, ⁓ funny enough, our third assistant out here at Wazoo, ⁓ Skip, well, he was a player the year after I left. So you look back as a small enough world of, yeah, all the guys that, you know, coached you and brought you into this world.
yeah, those are all some of my best friends. I mean, out of that, you know, Ian Beeris, he’s one of the associate directors at at Vanderbilt now. I he’s the guy who officiated my wedding, like guys that are really tight knit in a family atmosphere. ⁓
Post that went and did my graduate assistantship at University of Central Arkansas, was there for two years, got to work with football and a numerous amount of the Olympic sports and have a lot of fun there. Well, get my school paid for. And then, you know, post ⁓ going to that weird year that was COVID and us all trying to figure out what the heck to do in this industry, ⁓ got a call late 2020 from Jason Bell Camp of Western Kentucky and another one of those small world connections.
He knew Matt Bayliss. Well, I didn’t know how he knew Matt Bayless because Bayliss was the director at Utah once upon a time ago. Well, the guy that he worked under was Jason Belcamp. So when they called up, said, hey man, we want to get a younger assistant in here, some guy’s ready to cut his teeth and learn. I got a lucky phone call, got it out there on an interview, fast 48 hours, got a job offer, and then hey, I’m going to Bowling Green, Kentucky. And then from there, man, spent spent a good five years and five seasons. ⁓
Probably one of the coolest roller coaster rides between, you know, having that first year with Zap, Bailey Zappi’s our quarterback, breaking all of Joe Burroughs records. And probably the only time that you’ll ever see a quarterback, you know, throw for 400 plus yards go. Hey, man, you I thought he had an okay game, but he could have done a couple things better.
And goes out and lights it up for just shy 6,000 yards and 60 whatever touchdowns he threw. That was a great year, you know. Following after that, making a bowl game every year. We’d been there, always being competitive in conference. And along with that, just being around Vel Camp and we used to call him a V, but being around him and to be able to soak in as much knowledge as possible to try to catch up as much as possible. Because I still think, you know, there’s a time and place for CEUs and textbook and learning, but kind of being around that generation of guys that laid the foundation.
Foundation for us is something that you don’t get everywhere. And also kind of changing your frame of thinking. Like working for V was one of those things where you see your day through the eyes of a director. All right, man, how do we structure the flow of our workout? How are you handling the breakdown of class schedules? How are you doing all the stuff they don’t teach you as you’re kind of growing into this world of, hey man, did you design your meso for this week? no, I’m just trying to figure out where my class schedules fit in with these lift times. So I’ll get back to you.
And so much of that, and then you know, a good five years. And then ⁓ out here now at Washington State with our first year, my director Malcolm Hardman, who I was lucky enough that we worked together as associates back in 2021 at Western Kentucky. Small enough world. He got the job out here and gave me a phone call around bowl season, just one of those offers and opportunities that you just don’t turn down. And man, dude, we’re hitting the ball rolling right now, getting ready for a fun new season, new Pac twelve, and try to make some noise.
Samson:
Man, that what an awesome story. I
love it, dude. And seriously, I think one of the things I I kind of admire the most about your story is the willingness to to move and learn from every single location you’ve been at. Right. Like this is something I really reiterate to our interns or our GAs all the time. Like they ask me, you know, how do you kind of move up in the field and how do you get better as a strength coach? And I was like, well, you know, honestly, this may not be the best advice for hiring directors or anything to hear, right? But at the same time, like
When you are young, you want to go to different locations. You don’t want to just intern at one spot and then become an assistant, then hopefully one day become director. Like you want to intern here and then you want to go intern at another place. You want to go be an assistant at another place because, like you said, you get to ultimately see a lot of different f ⁓ you know, mentalities, a lot of different philosophies, and it helps you grow. Like, what’s the importance to you for moving and being able to go to different locations and learn from each spot?
Kainon Clark:
I mean I think it’s kinda like
hit the nail on the head with that. Like it’s having a willingness to learn and see something different. I mean, every stop I’ve had, it’s not the same style. It’s not the same coaching treats, not the same philosophy. It’s seeing, you know, kind of everybody still throws out thousand ways to skin a cat in this business. Well, go see more of them. Go see how a high intensity program runs. Go see how volume rolls. What’s your conditioning like from this place to that place? they both worked. Awesome. Now which one do you like and kind of grow in your own philosophy of even our interns in
GAs that we have around our facility, it’s just because we do it this way does not mean that you’re gonna do it that same way down the road. You’re gonna pick and choose and find the things that agree with you and that you fully support. You’re also gonna find the things of
I could use that, but I think I got a better way that’s going to work for me personally as a coach. Cause I don’t think that, you know, kind of even going into how you structure a staff from assistant through directors is I don’t need a bunch of copy and paste of the same guy. I need a bunch of different people with different expertise. If I got a five-man staff,
Okay, who’s a great technician that Witram can coach? Who’s great on the field with footwork? Who knows how to demo plyos? Who’s a return to play guy? And the more of that that you can soak in from a different place, the better you’re gonna be as a career. Otherwise, you know, we’re all gonna get here into our 10th or 15th year as we get into this farther. Is I haven’t changed year one to year 10. I think that’s a bigger problem than it is just finding this is the way of how I do things. You kind of gotta adapt with the times, but you also gotta adapt with the athlete and the training as it shows up.
‘Cause I mean, the training from heck when I was a player in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen is not the same philosophy that we have nowadays. Things have changed and the more that you can get with the times, you’re gonna stay in this business longer, but you’re also gonna have a bigger impact on the kids around you.
Samson:
No doubt. I I love that response and
I disagree wholeheartedly. You know, like one of the things I tell my interns is exactly what you say, right? You don’t have to agree with me right now. You can learn I just hope you learn something, right? And you can apply it in the future. But I don’t have an original thought. The only thing original about what I do is that it’s probably the first time all these different philosophies have been combined in this specific order, right? Like everything that I have has been learned from somebody, whether it’s Craig Fitzgerald at Tennessee or
Whether it’s Dan Wirth of Tennessee, you know, because you see the football on Olympic side, then you go out and, you know, learn from Darby Rich and John Riley. Like all these guys have taught me different things that have been really valuable and pivotal in my career. But like you said, you get to kind of plug and play and create your own philosophy, which makes it, you know, exciting. And then it becomes your own.
And then you continue to develop. And then like you said too, you have your network of guys. Okay, this guy’s really good with the sports science. This guy’s great with the footwork, speed, agility. I can know I could talk to about this guy about conditioning. And all of a sudden you can meld it all together into a great program. So I love it. You know, I guess the main resistance I see to that idea of moving around and going to different locations and learning as much as you can is people are uncomfortable with moving. They’re uncomfortable with getting out of there. You know, how have you embraced that comfort uncomfortability? How have you been able to
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Samson:
⁓ you know, continue to make changes so that you can be the best train coach you can be.
Kainon Clark:
I think I credit that one a lot with ⁓ kind of you ⁓ what’s that old Bear Bryant book? Junction Boys. One of my favorite just football books overall, but you know, kinda got a script from the line of Bear Bryant’s in a bar with one of his old assistants, kinda goes up of, Hey man, you’re a great coach, but I think you’re better at coaching people than you are coaching the sport. And I think that goes a little bit farther in this business of
Samson:
Yeah.
Kainon Clark:
You know, kind of same thing. I went from Midwest to the Great White North and twelve feet of snow. It’s a different living. It’s a different kind of kids, a different kind of people. Going from Midwest to the East Coast, that was culture shock for me. I mean, I’m going into, hey, dude, these are big buildings. There’s like three million people in the city. Okay, we gotta learn something.
And even from there, you know, going back down and kinda being a a transplant in the south for a while and kinda learn the culture of football down there and how the kids work, but even coming out to the West Coast and again a different kind of kid that I may not have been around as much, but being able to adapt on the fly and connect with them to get the most out of it ’cause
I mean, you take the same thing. There’s not an original thought. Training’s training. Philosophies are gonna change and adapt, but how you can connect with the kids around you and even connect with your staff, I think goes a lot farther. And being uncomfortable is a good thing. Because the more you’re uncomfortable, you gotta get a little more self-confidence in yourself. You gotta be okay with moving on to a different place and jumping ship and trying a whole different philosophy. And even Karen talked about different philosophies of if you’re a different school, that’s something you gotta take ownership of. This isn’t just the new
Notre
Dame way. This isn’t just the Western Kentucky way. It’s no, you walk in the building, this is my way, and here’s how we’re going to make it as best for these kids the best way that I can. So then when you make the transition to the next school, okay, man, now this is our way and this is how we’re going to adapt and move on. I think that goes a lot farther than just, hey man, you’ve been at the same school from undergrad through grad degree to your first assistantship. That’s not going to get you as much out of this field than what’s on the table.
Samson:
Yeah, for sure. I I agree. And, you
know, I mean, obviously I might be biased because I had a similar career path, you know, from was New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Tennessee, Texas, now North Carolina. Like I haven’t gone quite as far across as you have. ⁓ but, you know, I’ve learned from a lot of different locations and I feel like it’s really helped me. ⁓ and so again, that’s the main advice that I give to our interns because I just think it’s valuable. I think it makes you a better coach in the long run. You know, one of the things you say is being able to adapt to the times and you know, training is training, but at the same time
You’re gonna have to know how to develop these relationships with athletes. You’re gonna have to continue to hone your training. One of the big things is sports science, but one of the other pieces that you mentioned in your intro that I’m really interested in hearing about, right? Is you know, you’re kind of getting in the trenches mentality of training, right? Like, you know, there’s an aspect of the kind of the old school classic, Ronnie Coleman, Arnold slapping each other’s backs, having a good time training. How do you blend the two? How do you still get that mentality that, you know, we know and love?
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Samson:
I’m sure you had a similar upbringing of lifting where it’s like I love watching these videos, I love getting in there with my friends and getting stronger and pushing each other. And then how do you blend it with kind of the sports science side, you know, where like you said you don’t want it to completely overtake, but it is something that’s beneficial for your program.
Kainon Clark:
No, I think it’s still kind of take that philosophy of, especially when working with the kids and especially in football, is there’s the things we have to do that are part of the sport that I mean, just be completely blunt with like it sucks. There are things that suck. Nobody wants to go do shuttles out in the heat. Nobody wants to go do pause front squats. This was not a my docket for a good time.
But also at the same time, you go throw a bone a little bit. heavy bench day and you’re an eighteen year old kid who loves bench and you want to have bigger arms. All right, cool, man. Let’s just let it ride and have some fun. But also with the guys, it’s give a chance to compete as often as possible.
Obviously being within sports science and even as VBT is something that I love and we love using in the program is VBT is probably one of the best competitive advantages that we have. We come in, it might be across the board, hey guys, it’s you know a speed squat day. It might not be as heavy as you want to be. We’re not rattling the cage, but it’s fifty five percent in chains. Let’s go see who’s gonna have the biggest peak power. Let’s go see who’s gonna move the bar the fastest, who’s gonna talk a little smack to the guy next to him to get the most out of him. I think that’s a bigger area for these guys to buy in because
I mean, eighteen to twenty two years old, if I give you a ranking one five to number one, you better wanna be number one and you’re gonna find a way to get it done, but also you’re gonna push the guys next to you to get the most out of. I mean
Even today, we had a great bench day today in the weight room. Had some chain bench cycles, finished out with an 85% single. Well, it’s 85%. Might be different for some guys. Well, now it turns into a competition of I moved my weight faster than you did. What are you gonna do about it? That gets a lot more out of the room for the guys to have fun with it. And it’s also a bit more of an even playing field of, hey, maybe my receiver who doesn’t bench as much, but he can still go get in that big D-tackle’s ear and give him a run for his money.
I think having a comp competitive edge anywhere is something that we’re gonna get the most out of.
Samson:
Yeah, I love that competitive aspect, right?
Because I even had this another conversation this morning with one of our our new GAs coming in for women’s basketball. We were going over, okay, here’s our force plate test and here’s what we do. And he asked me about a couple of metrics that I was like, look, I’m not concerned about that, you know, because ultimately like the angle he was asking it to me from was kind of a do we limit stuff with this, right? And I’m I kind of view sports science more probably similar to how you do as an enhancer, right? It’s something that we can
continue to see progress or we can use it to enhance our program instead of saying we need to take away this much, right? It’s we can add in competitive aspects. So I love the VBT too, right? Because it’s just an immediate output you can see. And like you said, you know, guys could have the same weight on the bar too. And when somebody moves it faster, you know, they get to talk a little smack and it just makes it more fun, right? Because that’s the environment we all hope for and crave. I love it, man. one thing I’m curious about this is just kind of a personal question, I guess. And I hope our listeners like it too. Like
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Samson:
You come from a smaller town in Kansas. What was recruiting like out there? You know, were you sending tape out as much as you could? Cause I came from a, you know, a city of a hundred and fifty thousand. I know with my recruiting experience it was easier to get seen. You know, what was your recruiting experience like trying to get your stuff out there?
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
small that almost non-existent. ⁓ that’s one thing being this field, you kind of learn little bit a little bit more, especially you know, camp circuits, combines, guys getting out there and pushing tape. Whereas, you know, for us and guys growing up in a small town, it’s all right, hey, we we played football season. Okay, now we’re on to wrestling. All right, now we’re on to track. Okay, now let’s all go. Oop, I don’t want my lights, I’ll hit those in a second. But ⁓ going out there of
Samson:
Yeah.
Kainon Clark:
All dude, now we gotta go make money for the summer. I’m not even thinking about it. Hopefully somebody will look at me someday. And I think it gives it a little more of a a chip and an edge, you know, because Kansas, you know, only has the the three bigger division ones in our area with KU, K State, and Mizzou. So if you’re not a Big 12 or SEC caliber player, there’s a lot of D twos and NAIs and JUCOs around where for me it was, you know, the staff at Caulfield Community College was, Hey man, do you wanna come down here and just try to give it a shot to maximize what you have?
And it was fun, man. I mean, JUCO football is not all last chance you and rah-rah. It’s all right, man. Long days. It’s hot. We don’t got the best gear. We’re playing games on Saturday afternoons and Friday nights. You got a little bit chipped to your shoulder too. And you care about the guys next to you a lot more than you give credit. And that kind of thing just came out a little bit more. I still kind of joke around of if you’re a JUCO football player and you made it out, I have a lot of respect for you because that is
That is the true trenches of how much do you really love ball? How much do you really love the process to try to move on to the next place and maximize? And something that I kind of took with it of, hey man, let’s give it a shot and see what happens. And, you know, fortunately enough, got me a scholarship in northern Michigan. I got school paid for and said, cool, dude, I got something out of this.
Samson:
Yeah, I love it. And, you know, that’s something
I’ve talked about with a lot of ⁓ junior college coaches and then also division three coaches, right? They talk about it’s just it’s about the love of the game when you do it there, right? It’s about I love this, I want to be out here, I want to be a player, something can come of this that’s great, but at the same time I get to just play football for longer. So I’m glad it worked out for you in the long run, obviously. But, you know, it’s it’s always cool to me to hear about those experiences. Do you get asked about li last chance you a lot?
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
yeah, especially it was w in when Independence Community College had a season, which was the cross county rival for Coffeville. So usually that game was played in October. All the fans get out, you know, it’s small town environment, but the communities down there love them some JUCO football. So you like to play a little bit harder and have a little bit more fun. But also, I will say looking back at my own JUCO career, you cross paths with a lot of guys that you start seeing play on Sundays that you never would have thought of at the time.
I mean, I still go back and I joke with some of my younger players, ⁓ played linebacker at the time, and suddenly I am covering number three, and that number three receiver just so happens to be Alvin Kamara. Well, at the time you’re like, man, I suck. I can’t cover him. And then, you know, flash forward a couple years ago, ⁓ he makes a lot of money in this league. I think I was okay.
Samson:
Great. ⁓
Those are like my favorite ⁓
you know, like reels or something I’ll see where it’s like, you know, coach is pissed I couldn’t shut down Johnny Manzel in high school, you know. It’s like, come on, give me a give me a little benefit of the doubt here. So you were pre law, okay? You were interested in law, which I think is really cool. And then obviously transitioning into strength and conditioning. Did you have a moment when you first started out, when you’re at your first internship where you’re like, man, this is really what I want to do? Cause I think back to my own time. I was at UPenn.
Kainon Clark:
Yep, there it is.
Yeah.
Samson:
and I remember it was like five thirty in the morning. U Penn was combined football and Olympic. The departments were the same. ⁓ and you know, it was like I said, five thirty in the morning. We were doing chain back squats. It was as loud as could possibly be. If you ever seen the U Penn weight room, it’s an echo chamber. It’s just one straight tube, basically. And I remember I was being like I I just like hell yes, like this is what I want to do. This is what I wanna be about in my life and and do this for my career. Did you have any specific moment like that or did it kinda just grow for you as you kinda went along?
Kainon Clark:
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
No, I think it kinda it kinda hit me kind of as was closing my playing career out of, you know, division two level. We went through a lot of different strength coaches. ⁓ not the discredit of the university, but just nature of the game, business of the beast, you know. ⁓ Coach Houghton, who was one of our, you know, one of our strength coaches in there, he got a good gig at South Florida.
one of the first strength coach I had now, he’s the head men’s basketball strength coach at Kent State. Had a couple guys after that and you see a lot of different things, but for me it more came along the line of if I could go back, you know, 18 years old, what’s the best kind of training that I could give for myself? And then how can I apply that to the guys?
I think that’s one of those stones that you can’t leave unturned of where did I mess up or where did I think I was lacking in my career that I think I could have improved on? And then okay, now we’re put in a position of you have the training, you have the culture. That’s way cooler to give back. And I thought that was a lot more fun. And I don’t kid yourself, I was still watching a lot of Louis Simmons videos and West Side Barbell guys of this is awesome. Chain’s a bench, duh.
Yeah, it’s a great time, but having the capability actually I’m in a place of I’m not gonna say power, but I’m I’m in a lucky place of I get to give back to these guys and try to maximize the stuff that maybe when I look back I felt that either I slacked off on personally or somewhere that I think we could help them out a little bit more.
Samson:
Yeah, I love that reflection on kind of
just looking back at the things you did. Cause, you know, obviously for a lot of strength coaches, there’s a lot of self teaching. And when you’re first in high school, when you’re kind of a younger kid, I remember I front squatted every time I lifted for a year straight. like and I just could not figure out why my lower back hurt and my knees hurt, right? Because I was obviously doing it with terrible form and I was way overtraining it. But just like looking back at those things and then being able to apply it to your future coaching career, I feel like just helps you out so much.
Kainon Clark:
Mm-hmm.
Samson:
And it’s almost like one of those where, you know, as strength coaches, you try to help out interns saying, Hey, I’ve made that mistake before, don’t do this, right? And then sometimes the lesson’s best learned by somebody just going out and doing it. But the more you can be a coach and help them adjust or help them prevent those mistakes as much as possible, it really benefits both of you.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
No, I think I think that’s huge. And I also think like as you become a strength coach and kind of that same thing, you know, with front squad every day of, hey dude, I think I’m gonna try Smolov I thought it worked on a on a T-nation post one time. With you know, as a strength coach, we can go do some stupid things every once in a while and then go back to the chalkboard and go, Okay, so that didn’t work and under no circumstance can we ever do that to an athlete.
Samson:
The German volume training. I remember hitting that and
I like, Wow, I need some PEDs immediately ’cause I am not recovering. That was my my biggest mistake I made for sure.
Kainon Clark:
Ha ha
You you mean to tell me ten by ten on incline is not optimal? I I have a har
Samson:
I don’t know. I I at the time it was the most optimal thing I could do. And then I felt my, you know, pect tendon tearing as I was pressing.
I was like, all it’s time, it’s time to hang it up. So well, I you know, we have a lot of Olympic ⁓ sports as strength and conditioning coaches here. ⁓ you know, I love the kind of different aspects of football. I I personally started off in football for the first few years of my career.
Kainon Clark:
That’s it.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Samson:
You know, one of the things I’m curious about is is how do you approach position specific training within football? Like something different from a O lineman to a quarterback, obviously two very different positions. How do you go about training those two positions?
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
I think a lot of that for us kind of goes back to especially waiving volume and intensity. ⁓ you know, I think one of the big kind of terms that got thrown out kind of the past couple of years is like relative intensity of, all right, man, 85% for three, that might feel like 92. Where I think there’s a time and place for that. But also, like you even take skill position groups of, hey man, we’re going 85, maybe we have a 90% single today.
Well, my D-tackle down at the end of the room is a 600-pound squatter, and my freshman receiver at the other end might be 400. Gravity’s gravity, man. Negative 9.8 meters per second is undefeated. That’s going to have a little bit more wear and tear as the mass goes up. So, with that, is kind of some things that we can do to not necessarily fake intensity, but use an accommodating resistance, use chains, use bands and times and places to overload the top end of the range of the motion, but also keep some of the stronger guys up to par, but also the big.
Bigger guys and let them move and recover the right way. I mean, I don’t necessarily need to be throwing four sets of five to every single one of my own linemen. Whereas, you know, today, you know, bench day, some of our younger guys are hitting some sets of fours and fives. Well, my older guys, we got three by two doubles at 70% in chains, and we’re going to close the day at an 85% single and live to fight another day. We got our strength those. You didn’t necessarily need that much volume, but we got we got out of the day.
And then even as we go to accessories, just not using one size fits all, different movement planes, different ideas. One of the easements was for posterior chain. We do a lot of single leg RDLs and single leg hip extensions with our skill guys. Well, the linemen are gonna come down me, the endorks, and boys, we got safety squat bar good mornings. We need strong backs, we need a good hinge pattern. We’re all still hinging, we’re all still loading and getting stronger, but putting it more in a way of body size and body types of where do you need more load?
And letting our guys get most out of that. But even like taking like some of our quarterbacks, I don’t have to put a barbell on my quarterback saying it’s got their upper body stronger. We can use dumbbells, dumbbell circuits, different versions of rep schemes and intensities, but also keep in the back of my mind of
Hey man, if my quarterback’s got to go out and throw tomorrow, we can’t cook their shoulders. They’re gonna have to have less intensity. They’re making their volume up out on the field. So we’re gonna take that win and move on. But also the same thing as we get within the spring ball or even within the season, taking position specific. If my receivers run five, six thousand yards a day in practice, how much more lower body volume do we really need to stack on top of them? On the flip side, you go get down in the O-line, D-line. Name of the game’s punching and contact and heavy hitting.
Our presses are gonna feel a little bit more. We don’t necessarily need as much intensity. We might hit a couple more speed days in between to make sure we’re actually catering to the positions within the team and not just saying, All right, man, here’s the program, roll with it. Letting those guys get little more intricacy of waiving volume, waiving intensity, both around the sport and the time of the training block, but where we need to get better at within the positions. Like you take it on today.
We go outside, some of our skilled guys got a lot more change of direction emphasis. Big boys, we’re doing contact prep. We’re getting in the hips. We’re doing manual resistance because that’s what’s gonna apply to our sport. That’s not just what we need to go do for the whole program.
Samson:
Yeah, I I just think that’s something
that can get lost sometimes, right? You know, where you think everybody say plays the same sport, but ultimately their positions are very different demands than what they need specifically. So I even with basketball, everybody’s obviously running up and down the floor a lot, but you know, you see on any type of data, the bigs are gonna run a lot less than the guards. The bigs have a lot more resting time, but they need to be a lot stronger. You know, it’s a similar setup. There’s a little bit more of a blend of what everybody needs to do, but
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Samson:
You know, it’s something where I think it’s when you first, like you said, you you have your first program, you almost make it as general as possible. And then when you reinvent every year, okay, we can get more specific as we need, and then really take those things into account. What, you know, how do you guys do it at Washington State? Do you do it where your co strength coaches rotate groups? Do your strength coaches have specific assigned groups? Like what’s the breakdown of the staff with the athletes?
Kainon Clark:
Mm-hmm.
So we break it down, we kind of use a phase system, whether you want to call it, you know, intro, progressive, advanced, or for us, we use phase zero through three. Phase zero, your first couple of days on campus. How do you move? Can you squat? Can you hold a front rack position? Basic movement medicine and moving in planes that we want to see you guys in, because I think movement quality is one of the number one things that we have in a weight room that we can control if we let guys move terribly.
That’s gonna pay the price down the road. Maybe not right now, but it’s gonna bite us down in six months. And then from there, it’s phase one through three. Phase one, it’s these freshmen showing up on campus. Basic volume, understand fives and threes, understand how to strain and know what straining feels like under a proper load and under proper technique.
Move into phase two. I’m not going to say general volume, but a little bit more on the hypertrophy side of things. Build that muscle mass, increase your training age, stay within that slow cooker for two or three years. And then by the time they come out to phase three, which is where I take care, is kind of our older guys, higher training age, ⁓ high rep players, you transition out. So whereas those guys were having more muscle volume and hypertrophy, okay, we’re moving intensity. I’m not gonna say ⁓ conjugate-esque, but we’re gonna move heavyweight and we’re
Move lightweight fast. We don’t need as much volume in between because that’s not what your body needs. I mean, I got a couple of offensive linemen who are going into their fourth, fifth, and sixth years. How much more hypertrophy and muscle mass do these guys need if they’ve been vetted players? They’re at their goal weights and they’re at the body mass we need them at. Let’s get strong and stay strong. And that for those guys, it’s kind of like that, it’s that long, slow play of their training career. This is not a how strong can I get you in year one? It’s
From the day you step foot on campus, how much development are we getting in towards year five? And as your training age progresses, let’s adapt around your training age and even within those training ages, position groups. So letting those guys stagger out and adapt over time, that way they’re not just doing the same cycle year in, year out, asking for the same demands.
Samson:
Yeah, I I guess I’m curious
too. This is a question I have a lot for almost every strength coach I talk to now, because it’s just something that’s a reality of the field. You know, with the transfer portal, you know, we get guys in ⁓ what our guarantee is for eight months, right? You come in with us in the summer, our season with basketball ends in March, hopefully April, you know, which would be awesome. But for us, for most realistically, March, right? And then at the end of it, you hit, you know, a transfer portal.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Samson:
If I keep five guys from one year to the next, that’s a success. And that’s thirty-three percent of the team. Does that change your philosophy going into these phases at all? Does it does that kind of alter what you think about, you know, when you have, let’s say, some high level transfers coming in who you know are going to get a lot of playing time, who may have one or two years left who you could possibly take a more long term model with, or do you kind of focus now on switching to just getting them as ready as possible for this next upcoming season?
Kainon Clark:
Mm-hmm.
I’m gonna say a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. ⁓ kind of even when I was at Western Kentucky, you know, we were in the portal hard for a lot of years, but for us, it almost became an NFL mindset is how fast can we get these guys in here, have honest talks of what have you done in the past, what has worked well for you, what has disagreed with you, and now how can we blend that and mesh that within our program.
And also working around previous injury history. There’s certain things that certain guys can’t do. I gotta, you know, every year you might have a couple kids that has a back injury or something that’s creeped up over the past. Well, you might not be a back squat and good morning guy, but you might be a front squat and more lunch-based. Find the things that can work best for them that also fit within our whole mold of the program. I’m not gonna sacrifice the whole program for the sake of a couple of guys, but I do want to instill as much of our philosophy to what their bodies have seen already.
And that’s gonna change. I still think the transfer portal is a great grade for us as strength coaches because you might have a couple of my players, and I’m gonna be damn sure that those guys are trained up and ready for you. On the flip side, if you send me somebody, this is gonna tell me a lot about how your program runs. And taking that within with a grain of salt, you find out some things about some kids, but also you get to push them a little bit farther, maybe some areas they haven’t seen before.
Samson:
Yeah, we ⁓ I was even joking with
our coaching staff this morning because we had a former player FaceTime me today out of the blue and we were just talking and ⁓ you know he was a great player for us, played at us f with us at two forty five, finished the season like two forty-six, ⁓ and then ended up going on a bunch of recruiting visits, took a, you know, good amount of time off and came into his next school at two seventy. And I almost called the strength coach and was like, Hey man, just so you know.
Th I he was away from me for three months. That’s why he looks like this. Okay. I promise you I did everything I could for him to make sure that he was as successful as possible. So don’t grade me on that one specifically. And I even joked around with the player on FaceTime about that. But I think you bring up a great point too. Like, you know, ultimately there’s gonna be guys who transfer and have four strength coaches. And I might be the fifth strength coach that they have. I might be the fourth. And our older guys who I know, okay, we’ve got one year left. I’ve got you for eight months and we want to make sure you’re as ready as possible to play.
I’ll even ask them straight up, like, what has worked for the best for you in the past? Who’s been your favorite strength coach? Why? What did he do? You know, let’s just do that, right? Cause I’m open to, you know, making sure that they could be as successful as possible. Cause if the athlete doesn’t believe in the program, then it hurts you in the long run too. How about with a structural standpoint? Do you guys, you know, for let’s say for you as a coach, do you have a specific position group that you work with, or do you guys rotate around? Like, cause I remember when I was at Tennessee, I I worked with
you know, ⁓ kind of what we called our bombers, which was gonna be the middle linebackers, running backs and tight ends. and then that was Craig Fitzgerald’s group as well, and we stuck with them the entire year. Do you guys stick with that same group the year or do you kind of rotate through everybody works with everybody?
Kainon Clark:
We rotate a little bit of the what works with everybody. ⁓ most of our split goes into the training phase guys. So, you know, a lot of our phase two guys are gonna be with Coach Hardman, a lot of our phase ones are gonna be with Coach Skip, phase threes are gonna be with me. So you’re gonna cross past a lot of different position groups within the weight room. I think the biggest split is when we go out in the field. ⁓ I mean
Big guys are with big guys. I’m around lineman. I’m not going to fault it, but that is when we are out on the turf and we are doing position specific or conditioning based drills, bigger guys are going to be with me for the position specific drills we have that day. Whether that is we’re moving heavier prowlers and we’re doing contact prep where other guys are maybe running some agilities, doing change of direction work, that’s gonna be more on the field-based side of things. But as soon as we step in the weight room, you were sorted out by phase on your rack assignments. You might be next to a phase two guy, but the
coach that you’re primarily hands-on with is gonna be the guy that correlates with your phase.
Samson:
I like that, you know, because again, you get
to get to know everybody, right? And I remember I had a really great relationship with the linebackers. I had a great relationship with the running backs. And then, you know, I’d go over and try to coach up a D lineman. He’s like, Who the hell is this guy? Right. You know, like he just knew me as an intern who works with the other guys. So I like being able to rotate around. I think it’s beneficial. One other thing that you I really like that you said, ⁓ with the phase one guys is learning what straining actually feels like. You know, it’s something that I think gets missed.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Samson:
You know, a lot of people come in and they feel like they’ve lifted before and then all of a sudden they’re in a organized program for the first time, maybe coming from high school or coming from a school that didn’t have a ⁓ you know, designated strength coach and it wasn’t as, you know, ⁓ organized or regimented as a program such as yours. And they get to feel what the strain feels like for the first time. That’s always exciting for me because all of a sudden you see the look on their face change just a little bit and they’re like, no, I’ve entered into a different realm.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
No, and that’s exactly it. And I think I always think it’s fun to be around like especially the brand new kids that you know, freshmen coming into a program because it’s it’s laying that base level of foundation and habits. They’re gonna follow them for a good course of their career, but teach them how to do it in the right way. Hey man, it’s okay for the squad to move slow and look at me and say, Coach, that set absolutely sucked. But guess what? You held up great technique and I’m proud of you. That goes a lot farther than
What do do today? Everything sucked and my body hurts. Can you get finding a positive out of it? No. I think setting them up and keeping it within a safe place. And I think that’s especially within the weight room of, you know, failure is one of those things that’s not often talked about in our business. Nobody wants to use fail or negative body language, but especially in a collegiate weight room, you are going to fail, but now how can we teach you something out of it? And how did you get something out of it?
Samson:
Yeah.
Kainon Clark:
The weight rooms for us, this is closed doors, man. Your coaches aren’t in here. It is me, you, and that squat rack and that barbell. If you fail in here, that’s between me, you, and that bar. That is nobody else’s business. But so let’s learn something out of it and get out of it.
Samson:
Yeah, it does a service for you. It makes you better,
right? And then once you fail and then all of a sudden you succeed on the exact same task, whatever it may be, that’s when you start to get addicted and understand that this is a process that can really help you. And it’s it’s really cool to see that process come about. You know, one of the other things too I’m curious about is as you’ve mentioned a lot of, you know, really kind of like cornerstone sorry, cornerstone names within the field of people you’ve worked with and and people you’ve studied under. What has it meant to you to work with these coaches who have
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Samson:
laid the foundation of collegiate strength and conditioning and to be able to learn from
Kainon Clark:
I think more than anything, it’s I lucked out in areas that I didn’t realize at the time. And it’s not till you get a couple of years down and more people bring up the names. Whereas the time, that’s just the guy you work for. That’s my friend. That’s my mentor. It’s the guy I’m around every day. You don’t necessarily put him up on the high pedestal that some of the guys actually end up getting on because that’s not your relationship with them.
But then looking back and realize, ⁓ man, I lucked out. That was a blessing. I got to learn under him. I didn’t realize he created this. Like being around Ivy. Like Ivy is probably one of the best motivational speakers, best psychologist, best guy to be around 24-7. I didn’t really realize who he was until I had left. And then you go,
Okay, this makes a lot more sense. And I’m very fortunate to be around him at that time. And especially looking back now, not realizing when we were there that, this is the last time this guy was taking full control of a platform and a weight room floor. That’s a special something to have to have in your back pocket. Being around Coach Baylors at Notre Dame, like that guy’s a cornerstone.
Of strength conditioning. He’s been around for years. He’s worked with the top of the top. He had draft picks every single year. He runs a fluid program. He’s hyper intense. He’s in your face. He has a best relationship with guys that at the time it’s ⁓ yeah, it’s Coach Bayless. We went for a run and a workout earlier today and he taught me some things in his office. Then we went about our day. You don’t realize that until you’re gone. And I think it’s something that more than anything, it’s I feel as a coach, even now being younger, it’s that’s something that you have to pay back because those guys invested time in you.
You got to pay that forward, whether it be with your athletes or even with your younger coaches on your staff, because you don’t realize it then. You realize it later down the road. I mean, when I was at Notre Dame, I never paid for a lunch because Coach Steiner, Coach Beer, and Coach Bayless took care of me. That’s something that you give back to your interns of, hey man, you’re working for free and you’re grinding. Let me at take care of you and help you out and have a relationship. That’s things that they kind of instill with you as you grow because it’s not about you. It’s about the next generation of guys coming up with you. And something that it
Again, I go back, it’s lucky. It’s fun to be around them. You see them in a different phase. It’s not social media. It’s very raw and who they are. And I think the one thing I always look out with, with all those guys with Ivy and Bayless and Bellcamp, it’s the stories that get connected that you get to put two and two together with. Like going back, if you know, with Coach Bayless, you know, took the director job at Utah. It’s his first director job. He was stressed out of his mind. And wait, the guy he worked for was the guy that I was working for for five years.
That makes a little more sense. These stories intertwine a little bit better. ⁓ that’s a ha ha moment because we all can go look back and have fun with it. But then even looking at coaching staffs as they grow, even with here at Wazoo of hey, a lot of our guys on the fourth floor were coached by Tim Saha. He used the same template and training style we did. it’s because Saha was Velt Camp’s lead assistant for however long at Louisville. Like those things kind of come in together and realizing how small this industry is, but also.
the fun, beneficial connections that you don’t realize you get to run into because, you know, it’s just like any guy sitting at the bar having a good time. You’re telling war stories and everything’s great and fun, realizing, ⁓ I was in those war stories. That was a fun time. That was hilarious. Do you remember this time? Do you remember when we did that? It’s always fun, but it even it it connects you as a staff. And like going to the CSECA conference every year. It’s meeting up with those same group of guys, telling the same stories we do every single year because
Might’a been hard, might have been tough, might have been a little misery with it, but you look back at it fondly of like, man, what would I do to go back to that time? What would I do to have that back one more day?
Samson:
Yeah, I I just I agree
a hundred percent. Like I before you even said it, I was thinking about CSCCA, right? Where, you know, you get to meet up with all these coaches who you spend all this time with and you know, coaches that you interned with or coaches that intern under the same coach as you and you develop these relationships and and like you said, you know, you get to share these stories and it’s just kind of the, you know, the camaraderie of strength and conditioning that’s so much fun, right? Because again, it was tough, it was challenging, but like you said, could you could I just go back to there? Could I just do that? Because
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Samson:
When you’re younger, it’s all strength and conditioning all the time. Right. And it’s, you know, I’m just here to help out. I’m here to grind. I’m here to do everything I can to make myself better as a coach, which, you know, you obviously keep that mentality, but as you go up through the field, there’s a lot more things you have to worry about, right? There’s the relationships with the sport coaches. There’s, you know, different things that you have to do and take care of, you know, outside life. You know, I’ve got a wife now. I didn’t have a wife when I was an intern, right? And so those things are different and it’s it’s cool to think back on it and realize, man,
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Samson:
I worked my ass off and and I had a lot of fun while I was doing it.
Kainon Clark:
I think that’s one of those things kind of going back with, you know, this this next round of interns and GAs stepping in this field of like, dude, you are in the hot spot of when this is the most amount of emotion and raw fun that you may think sucks right now, but you’re gonna be itching to have that feeling back again. Same thing with you, man. You know, working back at Notre Dame in those days was, hey man, I didn’t have my wife right then. I didn’t have my daughter right now. It was
All I cared about, I lived, eat, and breathe, strength, conditioning. Then as you get older and farther into it, there comes more layers with life that you look back and go, You remember when all we did was try to take some extra protein shakes and come back the next morning to lift before groups? That was awesome. Whereas now it’s, okay, who’s on the 4 a.m. baby patrol?
Samson:
It’s just a different life, you
know, but it’s it’s still fun regardless, right? But ⁓ it was fun when you could just be laser focused. I’ve got a smile on my face just thinking about it. You know, like you said, you know, get there at four, you’re done at six. I remember, you know, we some days we’d be so busy, I don’t eat anything, and then you know, I’d sneak something from the fuel station and then go s slam a cookout tray at the end of the day just so I could have some sustenance, then run it back. But like you don’t you don’t want to give it up, you know.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
⁓
dear.
I mean, hey, I still think somebody at some point needs to make a strength conditioning post on the art of interns getting snacks out of the nutrition station without getting caught. Which is pre which is probably the bane of existence for all dietitians. But I tell you what, that got us through some hard times.
Samson:
Yeah.
A thousand percent. Are you kidding me? And this is like I you might
relate to this too, like Codoba chips. I lived off of those forever. Like anytime there was a catering meal, like when it was like chips and stuff, the dietitians wouldn’t mind handing it out. I’ll never forget, I mean, I got caught one time, you know, taking a breakfast burrito that was meant for the players, but I got caught by the associate director, Lauren, who was awesome. so shout out Lauren if you’re listening. because she kind of just turned a blind eye, right? She was like making a smoothie and saw me and then just like looked away.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Samson:
And if Rachel caught it would have been a different story and I love Lauren to this day because of it. There’s there’s certainly an art form to it.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
I mean, that’s it, man. I mean, heck, I think I think the number one we did at Notre Dame was Carrie was our dietitian at the time. Can’t remember her last name for the life of me right now, but we did do you remember the older nutrition Gatorade shakes? Like, okay, guys, there’s 550 calories in this. If we can get three of them, that’ll buy us till we eat dinner.
Samson:
yeah. Yeah.
I remember gaining weight because one
day they they left out breakfast burritos. ⁓ that like now they said, okay, you guys can legitimately take these home. And like the other interns like didn’t want them. I don’t know what they lost their minds. I put them in the freezer and I was eating like three in the morning. And I was up like five pounds after a couple weeks. And then the dietitian was like, They’re 1500 calories apiece. It was like, those are for the weight gain guys. I was like, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I get it now. But you know.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
No.
Samson:
Like you said, I just you know, this is one of the reasons why I really enjoy doing the podcast and hosting it and and getting to talk with coaches such as yourself, right? ‘Cause there’s just a love of the field, there’s a love of the grind of it. And ⁓ ultimately I think the people who love it the most are the ones who can translate it into being good coaches. So it’s fun for me to talk about these things. I appreciate that.
Kainon Clark:
That’s awesome.
No, for sure, man. It’s it it’s a ball. And I think that’s the that’s that one part they don’t teach you in school when you get in this business of what’s the my one of our interns, he loves that Harry Potter quote of, you know, you’re gonna die, but you’re gonna be happy about it. Like this is gonna suck. And if we survive this Friday run, it’s a miracle. But I tell you what, this is gonna be the best, this is gonna be the most fun we’re gonna have all all month.
Samson:
Yeah.
And then once you’re done with the Friday run,
there’s nothing better than knowing you got a f a Saturday off coming up and then just get to enjoy it, rest, and then go back and do it all again on Monday. Yeah. Well, Caden, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. I really appreciate it. It’s been great to get to know you more and and hear your story. ⁓ you know, it’s just been fantastic and I I appreciate you taking the time.
Kainon Clark:
Yeah.
Exactly.
Samson:
Yeah, well, good luck this upcoming season. I’ll be watching. I’ll be a ⁓ a Washington State fan for this next year. So can’t wait to watch.
Kainon Clark:
Ain’t no problem, man. I appreciate it.
Samson:
Here we go.
Kainon Clark:
Hey man, fly
the crimson flag and go kooks.
