In this episode, Samson sits down with Liane Blyn, Director of Sports Performance for Olympic Sports at Arizona State University. Liane shares how strength and conditioning has evolved through the years and what it takes to build a culture of accountability. From breaking barriers as a female coach in a male-dominated field to mentoring the next generation of coaches, Liane’s story embodies grit, growth, and purpose in the ever-changing landscape of athletics.
Key Takeaways
- Building professional connections is vital for growth in coaching.
- Communication styles and expectations have evolved across generations.
- Structure and consistency benefit both coaches and athletes.
- Transitioning from athletic training to strength coaching can redefine a career.
- Female coaches continue to face unique barriers in male-dominated fields.
- The transfer portal has transformed athlete development and retention.
- Adversity builds resilience and fosters accountability.
- Competing in strength sports can deepen a coach’s credibility and empathy.
Quote
“75% of kids drop out of organized sports by the time they get to high school. You can’t just point the finger and blame the coach—look in the mirror sometimes.”
— Liane Blyn
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Liane Blyn:
75 % of kids drop out of organized sports by the time they get to high school. It’s a lot. It’s one in 40,000 make it to the D1 level, and it’s one in 300,000 that make it to the pros. What are you doing to set yourself apart? And if you can’t deal with a simple adversity of not, okay, you’re not getting the playing time, you’re getting healthy scratched, you gotta ask some questions. You gotta look in the mirror and say, okay, what’s going on?
You can’t just point the finger and blame a coach or blame the situation. Look in the mirror sometimes.
Samson:
What’s going on Sampson strength coach collective listeners on today’s episode, we have director of sports performance for Olympic sports at Arizona state university, Leanne Blinn, also a former director of Olympic strength and conditioning here at Appalachian state where I currently work. And we got to meet just a couple months ago. So I’m very excited to have you on the podcast, Leanne. Thank you so much for coming on.
Liane Blyn:
Thanks for having me. It was ⁓ unbelievable meeting you two months ago or whenever it out there. You’ve done some unbelievable things at App since I had left. So I was excited to see all that.
Samson:
Thank you. Yeah. It’s, it’s
a lot of much smarter strength coaches have done the unbelievable things. I’ve just been able to figure out how to not run it down to the ground at this point. So, ⁓ but it was, it was great too. And this is always something I like bringing up because a lot of younger strength coaches, feel like get nervous about cold emails or cold calls or whatever it may be. And you just emailed me and said, Hey, I’m to be in Boone on these couple days. What works best for you? You stop by. We had a great visit and everything worked out well, you know,
Liane Blyn:
No, it’s unbelievable.
Samson:
It was something that can happen and it’s not something where people have to freak out about just reaching out to random coaches.
Liane Blyn:
Yeah, you’re right. People do get freaked out. But I’ve always been taught that’s how you meet people. It’s not who you know, it’s who knows you. So reaching out, making connections, meeting people, and you never know when you’re going to meet them again down the road or someone else has that connection with that person. it’s one of the best things you can do as a young strength coach. It’s how I got my first job. I reached out to Mike Jones back in the day at Nevada and said, hey, I’m
It was snail mail, by the way, and a phone call, no email. But it was like, hey, I’m going to be in Reno. I’m going skiing. I’d love to sit down and meet with you and have a conversation. I’m looking to get into this profession. So that was 30 years ago, a long time ago. And he found me a year later and said, hey, I have a job open. And the rest is history there. That’s pretty much how I started my, how did my journey as a full-time person. So full-time strength coach.
Samson:
Yeah
You wrote a physical letter? Okay, maybe I understand a little bit how the younger strength coaches feel now because that makes me nervous to think about writing a physical letter.
Liane Blyn:
I wrote a physical letter. I did.
Yeah,
physical letter. was phone calls, physical letters. Like, it was different than it is now. Like, email for me didn’t come out until I was my first year of grad school in 1995. So, yeah.
Samson:
Yeah.
Wow. so very, yeah, very much that
must’ve been very different methods of communication.
Liane Blyn:
Yes, I’m dating myself, definitely dating myself, but totally, totally different communication. Like you pick up a phone, you leave a voicemail, you leave your phone number or beeper number if you had a beeper at that point too. again, that’s kind of my generation, ⁓ you know, way back in the day.
Samson:
Hahaha.
Well, one thing I’m really curious about too, trust me, we’ll get to your background soon, because I want to go through everything, but I’ve always thought about this, right? I mean, how many times have you now received a text the night before that something has changed in the schedule, or we’re going to have to modify this, or can you be available at this time? Or even just a head coach calling you at 9 PM asking about what happened. Was it completely different that people had to stick to a regimented schedule?
Liane Blyn:
It was a schedule. It was a, what I still use now, a paper calendar written and everything is written down and that’s what you go by. You would get your actual paper calendar schedule for the whole season or the first half of the season. And that’s what they would go by. Like things didn’t change back then. It was, this is practice. We are practicing from four to six. Weights are before or after.
Samson:
⁓ ha ha ha ha ha ha
Yeah.
Liane Blyn:
and it was held to. So it was a much easier time than with all this wonderful technology that we have that you are available. 24-7!
Samson:
Well, there’s some really good parts about it, but there’s some really bad parts about it. mean, now we get our schedule Sunday nights the week before. And so it’s literally on that Sunday night, that’s when my wife and I will sit down and we’ll look at the calendar and I’ll have to tell her, I’m to be home at this time on these specific days because, and it’s also all subject to change quickly.
Liane Blyn:
Yes.
Yes, quickly. I’m very grateful and very blessed working for hockey, working for Coach Powers. He’s so organized and just knowing like our block is from 8 to 12 basically every day. Our guys know that, we have class from 12 o’clock on. That’s your time. My time is from 8 to 12 or 7 to 12. I’ll do lifts sometimes before a little bit before. And like he respects the guy’s time. Like we know that
You know, you’re a student as well. So you’re not just an athlete, you’re student as well. And I know I’m here from, I get here at six o’clock in the morning or five 30 morning depending. And I’m done. Boys last guy usually leaves here. The guys are walking out right now. It’s 12, 15. So they’ll be, they’ll be here till about one o’clock or so doing, messing around, doing stuff. So, but yeah, it, I love it. I love it. It’s regular. I, I’ve had coaches though, that are all over the map that would
Samson:
That’s awesome though, it’s a great schedule and it’s regular. Yeah.
Liane Blyn:
give you a phone call the night before, this has changed, that’s changed, and it’s really hard. It’s hard on staff, but it’s also hard on your student athletes. It’s hard on your athletes when things change, when they think it’s supposed to be one way. Like, hey, okay, I know I can set my, if you’re a planner, some athletes are planners, some are not, ⁓ but some are, and it’s like, okay, I know I’m going to lift, I’m going to practice, and then I have to do A, C, and D. And it’s really hard for athletes to hold them.
Sometimes when you can’t hold yourself accountable from a schedule standpoint and oh we’re gonna change this or a coach if a coach shows up late You don’t expect you won’t you don’t want your athletes to show up late. Yeah you as a coach Why are you showing up late to run the practice? So I’ve seen that I’ve seen it all seen it all
Samson:
Mmm.
Yeah, well, I
think that’s the perfect segue into our next segment. Can you just give me a breakdown of your career, where you’ve been, and then what’s led you to Arizona State?
Liane Blyn:
Okay, so 30 years in a nutshell. ⁓ grew up in a small town in Massachusetts, Southwick, Massachusetts. ⁓ Played field hockey and softball. I was an athlete through high school and athlete through college. I honestly didn’t think I was gonna go to college. I went to Endicott College, which was small back then, JuCo, all women’s school. ⁓ Imagine that, me going to all women’s school. I was there for two years. I played field hockey, softball. I was an athletic training major.
Samson:
Yeah
Liane Blyn:
And back then, like, strength coaches, like, there were no strength coaches in the early 1990s. There were very few, but they were around for football. ⁓ But I knew I wanted to do something in athletics. and there was, athletic training was the closest thing. ⁓ Did two years at Endicott, went to Miami, Ohio to finish my undergrad degree in athletic training. Met Dan Dalrymple, who ⁓ Dan’s been, Dan’s a legend in this profession, been around. He’s with, I think he’s with Denver now.
but was with the Saints for a long time, Norlin Saints. He got me into it. I was the strength coach, or I was the athletic trainer for swimming. And I just started hanging around with him and he’s like, hey, do want to do the strength conditioning program for swimming? I’m like, heck yeah, I do. So then I kind of got into that. And then I felt like I wanted to make things happen rather than sit around and wait for things to happen. So I wanted to transition out of…
out of strength or out of athletic training into strength conditioning. So that’s kind of where I went from that. I took a year off gap year between my undergrad and grad because I, you know, finding a GA position, finding, learning about strength conditioning and where to go. was, you know, there’s no email, there’s no internet, there’s no, as you had to do all this research and okay, what schools have strength coaches? Well, most schools had, if they had one strength coach, it was with football or it was
no strength conditioning program, the football coach did it, or, you know, again, I’m dating myself. So did a lot of research looking at where could I go to become a GA or, you know, get experience. ⁓ Took that year off, worked at a bar, worked at a health club, worked, ⁓ I got my athlete training certification, so I was an ATA certified, worked and volunteered for a doctor in North Carolina as an ATA for a while. Then I started reaching out since…
had to send 50 to 60 snail mail letters out saying, here’s my resume, I’m looking for a GA spot, whatever. I got two responses back. One was from Rich at NAU and then the other one was from Wisconsin-LaCrosse. So I ended up going to NAU. So grad school for one year, NAU. I honestly am not a school person.
Like I went to grad school and I was there for your NAU. I loved NAU. My time at NAU had a lot of great experience. the school was, was cardiac rehab is what I was in. I’m like, I have no interest in cardiac rehab in this program. ⁓ job opened up at Nevada Reno. And through my search of looking for a GA position, I had met Mike Jones, ⁓ who was a strength coach. He was there, the only strength coach there.
for 18 sports and that’s how was back in the day. Like you had, you were the only one and only, one and only. He called me, found me out of the blue and he’s like, he’s like, Hey, I have a job open. My first ever assistant position. It’s three quarters time. It pays $18,000 a year. Are you interested? Yeah, I’m interested. I’m in packed up my little Honda Civic. And I drove up to Nevada from, from NAU and I was there for four years. Love my time at Nevada. I got to learn a lot.
⁓ I had to push the envelope a lot. worked, basically helped out with football. So was like his right-hand person for football. I did 17 other sports, like his right-hand person for everything, but the other 17 or 16 sports besides baseball, men’s basketball were basically mine. So just had a lot of learning experience, putting things together, coaching wise, ⁓ making mistakes along the way. I mean, I look at some of my programs back in the day and I’m like, what the?
How was I thinking, you know? So it’s kind of funny to look at that. Was there four years, had the opportunity to go to Boston College. So back home from Massachusetts, I met Mike Puitamani. Was at Boston College for four years as well. Great experience. But I go from, know, and jobs haven’t changed much. We can talk salaries a little bit later, but, you know, $18,000 a year was my first year at Nevada. And then I had to go fight and say, okay, this is a three quarter time position.
I’m working six to six Monday through Friday plus Saturday footballs. And to make up the other quarter to percentage, I’m working at the fitness center from six to 10 o’clock at night. So I went to the senior women’s administrator and then my first year I said, okay, which 32 hours would you like me to work? I’m like, I can’t keep doing this and working basically 80 hours a week. And they brought me up to full-time salary and full-time job and all that. ⁓ even going to Boston College,
⁓ here’s your salary at $35,000 a year. You know, like that’s what it was. And who can live in Chestnut Hill at $35,000 a year, even in the early nineties. ⁓ Had an unbelievable experience there working for Mike Poitimani. He was awesome. He was a great boss. ⁓ Met some of the people, one of the best coaches I ever worked for. Al Skinner, I worked men’s basketball. Al Skinner ⁓ was unbelievable to me and his whole staff, Ed Cooley, that whole staff. ⁓ But also,
Keep in mind, BC had 40 sports. There were three strength coaches, okay? Myself, John Whitesides, Whitesides left after a year that I was there and Sean Skean came in and Mike Poyntermani was the head guy. I had 22 sports myself. So all these young strength coaches that bitch and complain about having, I have five sports, I don’t know what to do with five sports. I had 22, dude. And I lived an hour away because I couldn’t live in Chestnut Hill on $35,000 a year.
Samson:
my gosh.
Liane Blyn:
But it made me learn so much having to create relationships with so many different coaches and so many different personalities and so many different sports. ⁓ It was an awesome experience, like an awesome that I would never change for the world. I never changed. And sometimes you’re in things and you think, God, this sucks. Like I’m pulling my hair out. like, I’m not making a whole lot of money. you know, burning the candle at both ends, driving, got an hour drive in, an hour drive home.
I’m working men’s basketball and football. on the floor for football as well as my own sports, but I wouldn’t change it for the world looking back. Looking back, like it made me the person, you know, and ⁓ I’m a grind type of person. I’ve had three and four jobs when I was in middle school and high school. ⁓ My grandfather owned a casket company and when I was eight years old, was stuffing pillows at a casket company when I was eight years old. So I know what work looks like and I’ve done that my whole life. ⁓
So not to draw this out. So after Boston College, ⁓ Mike Poitimani left and it sucked. When Poito left and they brought a new guy in, ⁓ it was really disheartening for me because the guy that they brought in, the guy that there was two people ⁓ and one guy was awesome. Like, hey, like he’s gonna be a great fit. He’s an awesome, you know, just a great human. And the guy they brought in.
not a really good human basically was told that women should be working with women, your men’s basketball suits, you mama, like all that crap. And it’s like, I get it, but don’t be a dick, you know, and sorry for my French. You know, so we got into drag down fights every single day. And I finally like literally told them to F off every single day because it was disrespectful. And it was like, more than just my gender. Like that’s the end. That was in the early 2000s. So
Samson:
No, no, no, no, no. That’s correct verbiage there.
Liane Blyn:
when I was at Nevada, Reno, had met Joe Ken. so back in 1996, I had met Joe Ken and he was at Boise state. My husband does a sports medicine for the PBR, professional bull riders. I was at, I was at Reno. It was PBR event in Boise. And so I basically called Joe Ken and I said, Hey, I’m coming to Boise, ⁓ PBR event in town. I want to come meet you. And again, just cold call, picked up the phone. ⁓
hey, I want to come meet you. I want to come see what you do, hang out kind of thing. And walked in the weight room like I own the place. So and that’s how I created the relationship with Rich Gray and Joe Ken back in the day. With that, Joe was all over. was at Boise State, then he was at Utah. And then he came here to Arizona State. And at the time I was having issues at Boston College. I’m like, I got to get out of this place. He’s like, I got a job for you. So I came to Arizona State. I was assistant for him for two years.
best job I ever had was working for house. One of the hardest jobs I ever had was working for house, but best job. like, he taught me so much in this profession of how to be, how not to be, how to be to people, how to be a human and just unbelievable person. And we’ve kept that relationship for so long. ⁓ After two years, the hardest thing I ever did was walk in his office and say, how’s some leaving it? Like it was, I had been in the profession for 10 years ⁓ as a female.
And I’m like, I’ve been watching all these people get jobs. All these guys get jobs. Like, cause back in the day, I remember there was no director of Olympic sports. was no football. There was no basketball only. There was no football only. It was, you are the director of sports performance for everything. And I was in it for 10 years and my husband’s like, all right, enough is enough. He’s like, he’s like, you’ve been doing this for so long. He’s like, you should be a director. You’ve worked with football, but
people have a hard time giving you a chance and giving you that shot. Like it is what it is. I mean, even now in the year 2025, there’s still not a director that is a female at the head of football at a power five school. There’s not. And I don’t know if it’ll ever be accepted, which is fine. No big deal. But at the same time, like that’s just the harsh reality of this. Same within the NFL. Just the harsh reality. Major league basketball is the only one that’s actually taken that step to have.
women in their space for the most part, in terms of higher level director roles. And that’s what you wanna do. I love basketball, I my time in men’s basketball, even at App State, Coach Fox was great to me and I liked working men’s basketball and I still see some of the guys and it’s either a love or hate sport, I think for some people now. It’s a little different back than it was back in the day.
Yeah, so in 2005, I told House I’m leaving. I got a director’s role running Paula Quinn Performance Center back in Massachusetts. It was a felt for me, it was the only way I could expand me as a person, me as a director, me as a leader was having and running my own place. And back in the day, was, I made $50,000 at Arizona State. Great, good money, whatnot. But now I can go be a director.
And house, don’t get me wrong, house gave me a lot of responsibility, a ⁓ crap ton of responsibility, but it was one of those things like, okay, I’m tired, it’s time I’m ready. And a lot of the, lot of people have moved on and gotten director’s roles and stuff. So went to the private sector. It was a time when again, no, no Olympic sport positions were really around. No basketball only was around, but.
velocities were popping up, polyquin were popping up, pre-C speed schools were popping up, and you can make a good living being a director at those places. So I went to polyquin making $80,000 a year. And it’s like, hey, I almost doubled my salary. know, it ended up, polyquin, rest in peace, great learning experience, work for Art McDermott. Place ended up closing down the backer, wasn’t whatever.
I ended up opening my own place back in Massachusetts. So I opened up athletic based training. So I was in the private sector for, let’s see, 2006 to 2014 until I went to App State. Private sector is a great sector. We started a small facility and I think some people when they go in the private sector, they think this grandiose, like I need to have a 20,000 square foot facility. Okay, where are you people from?
Who are you actually gonna, how are gonna fill it? How are you gonna pay your bills? How you gonna pay your rent? We started with a 1500 square foot facility, then it went bigger and we gradually grew and it was the best thing that we ever did going from one facility to two facilities to, it was just myself. And then I ended up hiring Kevin O’Neill and some awesome people, Maddie McLaughlin along the way and just hiring people. But there was something missing being in the private sector. I missed coaching. And my husband’s like.
You’re crazy. You can coach in the private sector. And we had an unbelievable middle school, high school, pro program. like, it was awesome. Like it was unbelievable top to bottom. I’m like, but I don’t get to coach. I’m taking care of all the backend stuff. And he did a lot of business stuff, but I, there was a lot of the business stuff. So I’m like, Hey, there’s a job open at Franklin high school. It pays $1,200 a semester, a sports season. I’m going to go do that. And he’s like,
Are you crazy? And I’m like, yeah, but it’s something that I would maybe, but it’s something I want to do. And I interviewed for it and coach Sidwell and Kate Horseman and Sue Jacobson, just the whole interview staff and coach said, well, as a head football coach and he’s like, it’s $12 a sport season. I’m bringing you in to work football. Everything else is gravy. You’re working three days a week. I can’t pay a lot of money. He’s like, I can’t, I’m the AD now. I can’t be a strength coach and AD at the same time. I need, I need a good strength coach. I’m like,
Samson:
Maybe.
Liane Blyn:
great, I’m like, I got it. I turned that position of $1,200 a sport season into $5,300 a sport season to 50 kids in the first program I ever had, football only, to 657 kids and I made my summer program. And it was just one of those things, we just built it. If you build it, they will come is, know, I guess you say, if you build it, they’ll come. If you build something good, they’ll come.
Samson:
Wow.
Liane Blyn:
⁓ in season, like we built a brand new high school, brand new weight room and it was awesome. And I thought I was going to be there forever. And then App State came calling and I’m like, I kind of feel like I’m missing out on something, didn’t finish something. And I went to interview to App State. love, I thought I was going to be at App State forever. Like I thought like, Hey, this is, I love Boone. We still have a house in Boone.
Like it’s an incredible spot. I thought it was going to be my end game, you know, close to retirement, like finish out. Like I love coaching and the student athletes I had, like I still keep in contact with some of the student athletes and you know, had a great time there. And they’ve done a lot of great things there. You’ve done a lot of great things. Doug Gillins done a lot of great things. ⁓ The softball facility now is holy crap, unbelievable there. It’s unbelievable. Yeah. But I ended up coming back here.
Samson:
Yeah, it’s incredible.
Nuts.
Liane Blyn:
long story short to ASU in 2018 as the director of Olympic sports. They at that time flipped it to where it wasn’t just the director oversaw everything. It was like, right, we’re splitting football off from Olympic sports. And Joe Connolly took over football and I took over Olympic sports and been here for eight years. So I was kind of a long kind of like, you know, talk about my path and everything. And there’s a lot of stuff in between, but you know.
It’s been a great ride. It’s been a great run. ⁓ I couldn’t ask for a better group staff that I work with every day. I have a great strength conditioning staff that, you know, they all have two and three sports. It’s not like everyone’s running around having 22 sports here. You know, I’m very grateful for that. ⁓ But I think some people forget like the big thing for me is never lose sight of where you’re going, but never forget where you came from. And that’s a big, huge thing for me. Like I will, I don’t care.
Samson:
you
Liane Blyn:
I was out in the weight room today vacuuming. Like, yeah, do I have a GA? Do I have an intern that could do that? Absolutely. But I’m not above and beyond doing any of that stuff. Like, you you learn as you go. But ⁓ I love my job. I love working with hockey. I love all of our coaches here. Awesome. We have a great staff, our new athletic director. ⁓
Graham Racini has done some unbelievable things. We have a new women’s basketball coach. She’s a hot ticket. She’s awesome. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen with some of our sports. yeah, so I’ll stop talking now.
Samson:
No, no, no, no, seriously. It’s perfect. I mean, I love it because first
of all, it gives me a lot of different things to ask, but it’s so, I mean, the reason I got in this profession is because I really appreciate everybody who kind of helped pave the way and you are certainly one of those people. So it’s exciting for me to hear about the process and how everything actually came to be and you know, what your journey was. One of the things that I’ve done is I’ve interviewed a lot of older strength coaches who have been around since the start of the profession.
who have been male and I think you’d be the first one who started coaching in the 1980s and in early 90s that is female and you mentioned a couple things that I was very curious about like I’m sure straightening conditioning as a whole it was just trying to get people to buy into the profession but then you’ve got coaches who are saying that women need to just train women and they need to stay away from male sports like did you face a lot of that throughout your career was it just particular pockets or what was that experience like?
Liane Blyn:
It was particular pockets. wasn’t, there was a lot of people that were open-minded to it. Like Mike Piedmoni was awesome. Like even when I was at NAU and I worked at NAU, Coach Axman, who was the football coach, like I was lifted one day and I started competing in powerlifting. And he’s like, saw what I had on the bar and he’s like, I need a linebacker. Come out and be my linebacker. And I’m laughing at him, you know, and you know, so it just depends on who it was, you know, Coach Cutter.
was the football coach here at ASU when I was here and I was training for World’s Strongest Woman. And so that was back in 2003, I did World’s Strongest Woman. And the news station came out and Joe Jackson came out and interviewed me about going to Zambia, South Africa and being on World’s Strongest Woman. And they interviewed Coach Cutter and they said, well, how is it having a female work with your football guys? And he’s like, no different. He’s like, it doesn’t matter if they’re black, blue, green, white, male, female, it doesn’t matter.
coaches my athletes. Like that’s what it is. And you know, for someone to say that it, you know, it feels good that someone can can see, see beyond just, again, your gender and what you should be or should be kind of thing. So, and there’s, and I’ve hit roadblocks along the way. ⁓ When I was back in, grad, my undergrad as an athletic training major, my big dream, I wanted to be the first female strength or first female athletic trainer in the NFL.
And that was like my dream and this other girl DJ, she was also an athletic trainer. We were both at Miami, Ohio, and we had to do internships. So back then it was like curriculum and then intern program and you had to do intern hours and all that. So we both sent our resumes and sent letters, sent letters again, again, before email, sent letters out to a couple of NFL teams, but we had to put our names. I put my name as Lee Cataldo, so gender neutral, and she put hers as DJ.
So great, got phone calls back like, yeah, we’re interested. And as soon as they found out you were female on the phone, they’re like, oh, nope, filled or nope, can’t take you. So it’s been an uphill battle both in, know, strength conditioning, athletic training. It’s becoming more and more prevalent now that, you know, women are just accepted into it. And look, am I crying about it? No way. Like I think it was the best thing. Adversity, you deal with adversity, you grow from it. Like you learn from it, you grow from it. I’m not gonna sit and cry about it. Like, hey.
You didn’t pick me, you didn’t pick me. I’m going to go on and find another job. And now I work for an awesome head coach, work on men’s hockey. He’s awesome. I’ve worked with other men’s coaches before and it’s, you know, whatever you, you find your fit, you find your place and you find your people. And that’s what it is. And if it’s not a good fit, it’s not a good fit. You know, you learn from it. Some, some programs do better with, with male strength coaches. You just got to find what, what works better. You know, I mean,
Samson:
Hmm.
Liane Blyn:
There should be no different, I’m a female working with a male sport. What’s so different about a male working with a female sport? know, Gino Ariema is arguably one of the best women’s basketball coach out there and he’s a male and coaches women, but you don’t question him being a male coaching women. Why should it be any different the other way around? So, but again, it’s old school. It’s, you know, kind of having to figure things out and accept that things change.
Samson:
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you know, it’s just, I think the example you bring up is just what’s so indicative of why it’s just this terrible place that people go to when they think of females coaching male sports, because literally you have the resume, you have everything that you could possibly need. And then all of they find out that you’re female. It’s like, well, no, this can’t happen. You know, like you said, the spot’s filled immediately. And I think you bring up such a great point too. Like I had two of my three teams here are female sports.
And no one’s ever once been like, well, is this going to work out? Is Connor going be able to coach them or not? ⁓ And obviously that’s just ⁓ a completely incorrect statement, you know, right? For you something that females have to face in this career and then for males just to never have to worry about it. And like you say, you mentioned roadblocks. Like I really have not felt that many roadblocks in my career ⁓ just because of being a male. So I’m glad that ultimately, like you said, the adversity has just allowed you to become even better coach, but
at the same time, it’s ridiculous that you had to deal with this in the first place. But again, I’m glad too that the field has grown. ⁓ now, for me, it’s one of those things where we had Jess Givens on, who was a female strength coach working with football. And I didn’t even think twice about it, right? And so I’m glad that the profession has grown in that way, because it’s just ridiculous to completely cut yourself off to half of the population who could be great coaches.
Liane Blyn:
Yeah. It’s in even, even in high school, there’s some unbelievable high school strength coaches out there. But sometimes college strength coaches turn their nose up to high school strength coaches because all you’re at a high school, you’re at the logo on your chest. You know, you’re not big time because you’re not a big time school. Some of the, some of the best strength coaches are at high schools, you know, like it’s, it’s because you have to learn how to deal with when you’re at a college power five, power four. Now, if you’re in a power four school,
Samson:
⁓ yeah.
Liane Blyn:
You have five strength coaches on a football staff. Okay, that’s one to 20. It’s pretty freaking easy to coach 20 athletes. If you have to coach all 20 at once, pretty freaking easy. How about coaching a room and figuring out how to coach, how to put together programs for soccer and then softball and then, you know, all these other sports on top of it. So it’s actually pretty easy, I think. It’s pretty easy. Yeah.
Samson:
Yeah, I would say so a thousand percent. mean,
especially, you because again, I found out the first time I met you that about the same thing, you had 22 sports at one time. I mean, that’s insane. Like I’m not, you know, too, we’ll say, you know, I can admit it. get I get overworked sometimes with three sports. And then sometimes I hear stories from other people and I’m like, all right, this is ridiculous. I need to figure this out because I can’t be complaining about.
Haven’t I mean, my total athletes is like 45, you know, like I’ve kind of got to figure it out a little bit and understand that it’s been a lot different for other people throughout their career. You know, is that frustrating sometimes for you to hear younger strength coaches kind of say that they struggle with one or two teams or, you know, it’s just, feel overworked because I’ve got, you know, 30 total athletes.
Liane Blyn:
It definitely drives me nuts. It
drives me nuts. And that’s, that’s what I’m like, Oh God, I’m old. Like I’m old and bitching about, you know, this and I shouldn’t be, but, but it is, I think, you know, go work at a high school. Every single, every single strength coach coming up needs to work at a high school, a mid-major school and learn how to deal with even here for graduate assistants. Like our GA’s don’t get sports. Like there are like, they’re a secondary for us. I tell people that apply.
all the time. Like if you’re okay being a secondary, then that’s what you’re going to be. And sometimes we take people with a little bit less experience because with someone with more experience, they’re going to be disappointed when you don’t get your own sport. If you have more experience, you’re fine. You want to go to grad school, go to a smaller mid-major school where you know you’re going to have your own sports. You can make your mistakes there. ⁓ You know, good, bad and different. Like I would rather see people that are really into it.
And for us, like our second year, like Billy, my grad assistant now, he’s in his second year. Like I let him write the hockey program right now. Then I’m at the summer program and like, hey, no, you fuck it up. It’s on you. ⁓ You know, I let him learn and do some things like that. But, you other programs, you know, going to Springfield College and going to grad school there, get your teams right off the get-go. So sometimes the logo on your chest and a big time logo on your chest, yeah.
But like having that on the resume, yeah, great. But it doesn’t give you the experience that some of the smaller schools does.
Samson:
No, for sure.
And I mean, can guarantee if any listeners here want to become a GA at Appalachian State University, we have three spots open for next year. And you will get to work with a plethora of teams and get to make your own mistakes. ⁓ But again, those mistakes are what really helps you grow the most. And like you mentioned with yourself, like with having 22 teams.
You have no choice, but to learn quickly. You have to learn what works, what doesn’t, how do you manage weight rooms and how do you transition from one sport to the other faster. And then all of sudden, when you have one or two or three teams total, it feels a lot easier to be able to handle it.
Liane Blyn:
Oh my God, it’s so easy. Like I’m like,
all right guys lifted. They had to come in between seven and nine 30 this morning. I’m like, do, do, do, do like sometimes I’m like, I miss when I first got here, I, the second stint I had soccer, I loved coach Winkworth and Chub Chubby, the staff and everything. And the athletes were awesome. And then COVID happened. And then I had to go to one sport because we had to do this travel with the big 10 kind of thing. And I was in that little pod with hockey only.
But sometimes I miss having other sports and being around it. And here I have an unbelievable facility at Mullet Arena and it’s hockey only. ⁓ I miss having other sports and interacting with other student athletes. So you can get lonely sometimes, even staff wise. Like we have our little bubble and you know, as far as our athletic training staff or director of ops, like we’re really, really close, but sometimes it’s like you miss that, you know, connection with others. Then you feel like you’re in in a silo, guess. Yeah.
Samson:
⁓ 1000%. I can identify
with that 100 % with basketball because sometimes I get sick of the other guys on staff and I just go hang out with the other strength coaches for the rest of the day. It’s way more fun that way. But you get to meet these other athletes and you get to hear their stories and I feel like it’s a lot more refreshing. Not to say I don’t love my basketball guys, I do to the death, but ultimately.
Liane Blyn:
Way more fun. Yup. Yeah.
Samson:
listening to other athletes and it really helped me with my wife being the dietitian at the school. You know, it’s kind of like an easy break it down. Oh yeah, I’m Tess’s husband, you know, and then we just start talking from there and then you get to hear some really amazing stories about people overcoming adversity and figuring out how to be high performers. It’s a lot more fun and it’s a lot more rewarding for me just to be able to be exposed to as many people as possible. Yeah.
Liane Blyn:
Yep, I agree.
Totally agree.
Samson:
What other ways have you really seen the profession change? Because I know from people who have been around a longer time in the profession, they have said there’s difference in training styles. There’s difference in how athletes are from back in the 90s to now. What are the main differences you’ve seen?
Liane Blyn:
A couple of big things. ⁓ Back in the day, you used to develop guys. You knew you were have them for four, maybe five years, if there was redshirt year. ⁓ So there was consistency. You can come in, they would come in as a freshman and you would watch them blossom and leave as, know, come in looking like a little kid and leave looking like a man or leave like, you know, like that was one of the best things. The development piece was awesome. Now…
Some of these kids, know, with the way the transfer rules are, the transfer portal, I’m not getting my time. want to train, like in my playing time, I need to leave, I need to move on, greener pastures. There’s a lot of that now that’s going on. And it’s really hard, you know, for me, because I want to see kids develop and grow. And it’s like, but okay, this kid has one year left and you gotta, you can’t slow cook them. There’s no such thing as slow cooking anymore. There’s zero, zero slow cooking a kid.
taking and breaking everything down and being basic because coaches want them right here right now. Hey, no, we brought this kid into play. He needs to play. Well, he needs to gain 20 pounds and he’s not very big and he’s weak as a kitten and I don’t know. So your injury risk is a little bit more. So that’s the biggest thing that I see is the lack of, I don’t even want to say lack of commitment, just the change in the way the transfer rules have gone.
You know, it’s hard. Athletics is hard. It’s always been hard and Too many kids now I think too many parents just quit and think the grass is greener Grass is green where you water it You know ⁓ At the same time grass is green you water it but if you run into a drought you got it You got to move on, you know, and so transfer portal does give you the opportunity if you hit a drought
and it’s just not clicking and not working, you can leave and move on. But I think kids nowadays are too quick to say, oh, no, there’s a drought and I gotta leave. They’re not willing to deal with the hard times. They’re not willing to deal with being told no. Mommy and daddy never told them no. Their club coach, their junior coach never told them no. It’s mommy and daddy, oh, you know, I’m gonna go pay out and shell out all this money and I’m gonna find someone who’s gonna tell me that my kid’s the greatest.
the percentage, 75 % of kids drop out of organized sports by the time they get to high school. It’s a lot. It’s one in 40,000 make it to the D1 level, and it’s one in 300,000 that make it to the pros. What are you doing to set yourself apart? And if you can’t deal with a simple adversity of not, okay, you’re not getting the playing time, you’re getting healthy scratched, you gotta ask some questions. You gotta look in the mirror and say, okay, what’s going on?
You can’t just point the finger and blame a coach or blame the situation. Look in the mirror sometimes. So that’s the biggest thing. You know, the whole getting paid thing. mean, back in the day, let’s face it, guys got paid. It was just illegal, but they worked around it. Guys got paid. Who are you kidding? Who are you kidding? Who are you kidding? Now it’s just legal to pay athletes and pay to play is really what it is and call call a spade a spade. You know, they’re making changes to it with, you know, rev share and all that, but
Samson:
Yeah, for sure.
Liane Blyn:
that’s definitely different. Back in the day, you didn’t have that. You went to a school, you played for a school, you were heart and soul for a school. I do think now it does give you the opportunity to where if things aren’t working out, you can leave, you don’t have to sit out. So I do think there’s some benefit to that either. And some people just need a fresh start. you were held to, held to nope, you’re stuck there, you’re stuck there.
Some kids just need a fresh start and of no fault of their own or of no fault of the program, which is not a good fit. ⁓ That’s, know, and the whole, you know, getting paid and the, you know, NIL deals and all that. That’s different. That’s, I think that’s kind of, look, do I think athletes should get paid? Yes, they get their scholarship. They get, you know, meals. They get flights. They get all this stuff. Do I think schools…
schools that profit off a name, image, and likeness, I do think there should be some back to the student athlete for that. But I think some of these, in my personal opinion, the $4 million deals, the $7 million deals, everything is earned, nothing is given, and in a lot of those situations now, it’s nothing is earned, everything is expected, and what happens when you don’t hold up the end of the bargain, and there’s nothing you can do about it. So that’s changed a lot, definitely a lot.
I think that our profession has grown significantly now. I said I’m grateful I have nine staff members for the 26, well 25 Olympic sports that we have here. So everyone basically has anywhere from one to one to four sports that they take care of. So we have a bigger staff, which is awesome, which I think it’s good and bad. You don’t get as much but again, we’re at a power for school. think some people younger strength coaches are like, wow, I just have one sport.
To me, it’s like younger Schrenko, just go get as much experience with as many sports as you possibly can. Don’t pigeonhole yourself into one sport, especially at an early run.
Samson:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was the advice I was given was the exact opposite actually was, you know, learn to specialize early so then that way you can become kind of a, you know, known as a basketball guy or, you know, hockey guy, whatever it may be. ⁓ And luckily, I didn’t really listen to that coach and I was fortunate enough to work with a ton of different teams, but it’s certainly ⁓ changed the trajectory trajectory of my career. And look at this, I still get to work in basketball. So the sky didn’t fall and I’m a better coach for it.
Liane Blyn:
Yeah.
Exactly. Like, how says it best? Lifting is lifting, playing is playing. You know, you don’t have a bench off at halftime to determine the game winner. So the lifting piece is a piece of the puzzle. The strength conditioning piece is a piece of this, a piece of the puzzle to the development of an athlete in their sport.
You know, your best lifters aren’t necessarily your best athletes, your best players, your best skill players, and your best skill players aren’t necessarily your best athletes. You have to learn how to figure out how to compliment being a good athlete, a solid athlete, a healthy athlete, a resilient athlete, and the weight room helps build that stuff. ⁓
I had a kid last year, Schmags, he was a beast. He was a beast in the weight room, squatted 405, asked to ankles in season as a hockey player. But he was our third line or wasn’t a high minute guy type thing. ⁓ But he was an unbelievable kid in the weight room. Didn’t correlate necessarily to the hockey players. Playing the coast, love him, he’s great kid, but it’s not… ⁓
doesn’t always correlate. Doesn’t. Oh, I was gonna say even technology. So technology has changed a lot. And one of my best skilled guys, defenseman, best skilled guys, jumped to 28 on the fourth plate. That’s all he was, two eight. All right, two nine at most. I’m like, but you’re gonna tell me like, oh no, that’s bad. Like he’s a terrible athlete. No, he just can’t.
Samson:
Yeah, my favorite, sorry, go ahead.
Liane Blyn:
jump like he’s not good at producing force but he’s got the most points as a defenseman like so any place 27 minutes a night 25 minutes a night like it just doesn’t match up to me to some yeah
Samson:
Yeah, one of my favorite
quotes is ⁓ the best training coach on your staff is your recruiting coordinator, right? Because at the end of the day, like, you know, I remember we did our progress pictures, we just finished them up. And we’ve got one guy who, you know, looks totally shredded, looks way different, right? And everything. And it was just like, no, he actually had an injury, you know, couldn’t train for a month, then came and trained with us for, you know, three months and was a genetic freak and also happens to be really good at basketball. So
Liane Blyn:
Mm.
Samson:
I showed the picture to our recruiting coordinator and I was like, yeah, man. I was like, it was all me, know, being facetious. And he goes, no, you’re welcome. So, I mean, it just, you said those things don’t necessarily correlate. But one thing I really relate to what you’re saying is it’s difficult to look at people from a perspective of, I’ve got four to five years with you now ⁓ if they redshirted. Like I remember there was one player who we first got in and he was a really, really high level player.
Liane Blyn:
You
Yeah.
Samson:
He was great for us. But everything I kind of pictured with him was, in four years, this is what it’s going to look like. And, you know, in three years, this is where your body will be because he had a lot of work to do on his body. And I was really excited about that prospect. And we got to year two and I was like, wow, we’re making all these strides. Like, just imagine two more years, what it’s going to look like. And like one of the most heartbroken times in my career was when he came into my office and he told me he was entering the transfer portal.
And, I couldn’t blame him because he got offered a ridiculous number that, you know, he couldn’t turn down and I couldn’t blame whatsoever. But ⁓ that was a moment that really made me change my perspective as a coach was I’m not going to have these guys for four or five years. And now I get really excited when I have a red shirt, because you’re at least locked in with me for one year. You probably won’t have film, you know, so you can’t transfer out really. So you’re basically going to be with us for two years. So now that’s like the two years is the guarantee. I think it’s hard to.
Liane Blyn:
one year.
Samson:
⁓ train like that sometimes, especially when you know what it used to be. At least that’s what it’s felt like for me.
Liane Blyn:
Yeah, I definitely, definitely feel the same way. Feel the same way.
Samson:
Yeah,
I think the money aspect you mentioned too is very interesting. ⁓ One of the things I’ve noticed with it too is I think it leads to more transfers because people have an unrealistic value on themselves. They think that, well, this player who started for us and played 38 minutes every game and got $500,000 from this ACC school, I’m definitely going to get at least half of that. And then all of sudden they bump down a league and they’re not getting paid whatsoever. ⁓
I agree with you. think these unrealistic expectations and then a lot of people who don’t really say no anymore ⁓ can really interfere with how athletes develop and how they look in the long run. How do you still kind of try to coach from that old school type of way where it’s a little bit more hard nose, maybe you say no a little bit more, you’d be realistic. How do you kind of keep that alive even in this era of NIL?
Liane Blyn:
know that I will run through a brick wall for them and they will run through a brick wall for me. it’s meeting them where they’re at, you know, meeting the guys, hey, what do you need from me? And that’s one of the first questions I ask every day, like, what do need from me today? And it builds that connection. And connection is one of the biggest things that you can do with your with your athletes. You build that connection, you have great communication, and they’re just gonna work. And some of the guys that have come in, like they don’t they don’t understand the weight room and it’s
like, all right, well, how can I help you understand how the weight room is going to help you? How can I get you to see that you’re going to get stronger, you’re get faster, you’re going to get, you know, all these things are going to help.
correlate not necessarily translate but help correlate to becoming a better hockey player from a stability strength and in power standpoint ⁓ It’s really just having a conversation having a conversation with those kids. Okay, what do you want right here right now? It’s just like when I worked 20 years ago at Boston College, know, the guys never did legs the strength coach that was there before me They’re like, no, you know, I can’t lose touch of the ball They didn’t really lift weights and all that and I’m like build a connection like hey, what do you want to do? I want want to dunk I want
I need I need more balance. I’m like, all right, give me give me six weeks and we’ll start doing a little bit of legs. I’m not gonna kill you. We’ll start doing a little bit of legs and lo and behold all their vertical jumps go up. Did a little vertex test, you know, didn’t have all the force plates and stuff back then and they were bought in like and it was like, all right, what do need for me? And you know, then if you need this for me, then I need this from you. So it’s it’s an equal partnership. It’s like a marriage, you know, what do you need from me? What do I need from you? And you make it work.
⁓ And the guys know like they get pushed like in the summer, you know, it’s all voluntary in the summer for here. It’s not like basketball. you know, hockey is like, hey, if you’re here, you can train. But my guys come in there. I kick the rest 15 hours a week, at least in the summer. You know, we’re doing, you know, we’re lifting, we’re running, doing speed work two hours, and then they’re on the ice on their own for another hour every day. ⁓ And hockey is a white collar sport, but it’s a blue collar mentality. And I love it.
You know, most of the guys, they’re not whole lot of pre-Madonnas. There’s a few. I’ve had a few. But for the most part, the pre-Madonnas get drowned out by the rest of the guys. And these are our expectations. This is what we do here. And this is how we do it. And this is what we do. And this is why we do it. And you better follow along. We have great leadership here. We have great, great leaders and our captains as well. This is a history. This is a tradition. Even our freshmen, like I beat…
the shit out of our freshmen. Like I am, I tell the guys I’m an asshole, but I’m a funny asshole. You know, I’ll never say anything to be mean, but you know, guys don’t put the pitchforks up. the first day I had a freshman come in and he came in and worked out and the pitchforks were turned down. And so our first workout, our first workout with the freshmen was in our other facility. I’m like, you have to earn the right to come into the hockey facility. All of those before you.
lifted in this facility. So freshmen, you guys going to that facility? Well, that facility is 15,000 square feet and we have about 15 racks of dumbbells. I took all those dumbbells and I turned the pitchforks down and dumped some of the 150s on the floor, 130s on the floor. I said, Hey guys, you got two fricking minutes. Put the pitchforks up and clean up the fucking room. So they basically shit themselves and they picked it up and they learned from there that, you know,
pitchforks never go down, they always go up. But it’s also that connection to building like, this is where it starts, the mentality. It’s like, it’s gonna be hard. You’re gonna be asked to do some difficult things, but we’re all gonna end it together.
Samson:
Yeah, I love that. we actually, it just reminds me, we have one of our redshirt freshmen the other day, apparently went up to the redshirt freshmen from two years ago and was like, I definitely have it harder than you. There’s no way. And they got into a 15 minute argument about who has the tougher experience of being a redshirt freshman because, know, especially when we recruit guys, we tell them, hey, you’re going to redshirt. And so when they come in, I’m like, we have to be best friends, by the way. And you’re probably going to hate me. You know, you’ll be my best friend, but you’ll probably hate me for the first year. And then
Liane Blyn:
Yep.
Samson:
We’ll get along just swell after that. But ⁓ I love that you’re able to still kind of keep that training philosophy. And it sounds like to me, a lot of it is going to come from leadership from the older guys and then leadership from the coaching staff as well too, because that’s how I certainly feel with our coaching staff here. We recruit guys who kind of seek that ⁓ accountability level and who want to be the best they can possibly be. so.
Liane Blyn:
Yep. Yep.
Samson:
Like you said, the pre-Madonnas kind of get drowned out or they don’t really fit in with the program. And it makes it lot more fun to be the strength coach in those scenarios too.
Liane Blyn:
It definitely does.
Samson:
Yeah. Okay. So my final question for you, I’m really curious about this because I didn’t know this about you. How was your experience competing in the World’s Strongest Woman? Yeah, it’s got to be incredible. ⁓
Liane Blyn:
You
It was awesome. It was awesome.
It was fun. ⁓ I competed, let’s see, well powerlifting, started in 1996. I did like a small bench competition between my grad and undergrad years. And then when I went to NAU, the other GA, Trevor, and there was a big weightlifting contingent up there, Snatch Clean and Jerk, and I’d never Snatch Clean and Jerk before. And Trevor’s like,
called me slow Twitch. he’s like, yeah, I did a couple of weightlifting competitions. He’s like, yeah, you’re not good with that. So then he took me to a powerlifting meet and I loved it. Like him and his wife, Michelle, like they’re like, he’s like, you got something here. And then schedule wise, time wise, powerlifting just didn’t, like I power lifted all the way through God, was at, when I went to Nevada, I went to worlds and all that stuff. And when I left to go to Boston college, like,
The timing didn’t work out. traveling with hockey or traveling with baseball or basketball at that time. And I just didn’t have time. And then I met Charles Poliquin and Art McDermott. And then I met Bruce Tessier and he got me into competing in Strongman. And I lifted my first Atlas stone in 2000 and I was hooked. I loved it. Absolutely loved it. So I competed in Strongman for a while.
Went to nationals in 2003 and then went to World’s Strongest Woman. So Jill Mills was the 2001 2002 and then I was one of the Americans for 2003. So it was awesome. It was in Zambia. I was training here at ASU during the time like right getting ready for it. but my my whole garage was filled with Atlas stones like we made all of our Atlas stones and we had boxes we had every piece of apparatus who fell stone farmers carries like
everything. So yeah, I was hooked. It was awesome. I miss it. And then I did kind of schedule wise, went back and forth with powerlifting. And then from 2006 to 2017, I just stuck to powerlifting. I did one strongman competition, Scott Caulfield. I met Scott Caulfield when I was working at Paula Conformance Center in 2000. And I taught him how to flip his first tire. I taught Martin Rooney how to flip his first tire, called his ass out a few times. And yeah, it was fun.
Samson:
⁓
Liane Blyn:
That was Conan’s wheel and it was so much fun doing that stuff. And adding it into your training too for your athletes is a lot of fun. You don’t have to do anything crazy, crazy stuff with flipping tires and having to move with load is good training.
Samson:
Yeah, well it gets them out of the weight room and I feel like they kind of get into it and they have a lot more fun with that. My favorite piece of always talking to anybody, whoever competes in Strongman is like, what does your garage look like? Because like you mentioned, you’ve got a million different apparatus. I don’t even know what the term would fully be, but there’s just a million different things and I love talking to people. like, what do you have at home? And it’s always the Atlas stones at the very least and then they kind of figure out the rest. So I love it.
Liane Blyn:
you
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I have a picture in my office of me here pulling a plane. So I had an opportunity to pull a Phantom F4 fighter jet plane. was 14,000 pounds. And this was in 2004. The guy’s like, where’s the video of it? I’m like, well, it’s on VHS, but it’s on YouTube. I’m like, I’m that old. Let me go and pull up tapes. And they’re like, holy shit. I’m like, yeah, it’s, you know, seven tons. No big deal. And they’re like, well, how far did you have to pull it? I’m like, it was 30 yards, 100 feet. And he had a minute to do it. So they’re like.
Samson:
my gosh.
Yeah, let me go pull out the tapes.
Hahaha
Liane Blyn:
Oh, I’m not, I’m not messing with you, you know. Yes, please go squat. Please go squat. There’s, know, yeah. Yep. Or they pull up videos, like some, some of the videos from me competing and stuff. they’re like, holy shit. Like, you know, I’m like, I’m like, I’m a wash up now, you know, but back in the day, I was pretty good. Back in the day, I was pretty good. Yep. Now I just play beerly hockey for fun so I can at least see what you guys go through. Yeah. Yeah. It’s fun. It’s been fun.
Samson:
Yeah, yeah, now I need you to go squat, please.
Hahaha
Back in the day, I had the juice. That still gives you a lot of credibility for sure. That’s
awesome. Well, Leanne, thank you so much for coming on the show. Seriously, it’s been really, really fun for me to hear about your story and hear about all your different thoughts because I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I’m not just saying that because I’m the podcast. was personally, as a strength coach, really align with a lot of your values too. So it’s been very fun for me.
Liane Blyn:
So.
No, thanks for having me. Like I said, was thanks for letting me invade your space when I was in Boone out visiting and getting to meet you and like said, see all the great things you’ve done up at AppState. it’s awesome to see changes in this profession and good people in this profession and meet others. So yeah.
Samson:
Thank you, that means a lot,
seriously. And so it sounds like if somebody wants to apply for a GA position, best way is snail mail for you. Yeah, make you stand out, yeah. Awesome, well, Leanne, thank you so much.
Liane Blyn:
Snail mail, yeah, snail mail, exactly, exactly. Yep.
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
