In this conversation, Keane Hamilton discusses his unique career path that blends collegiate strength coaching with teaching in higher education. He explains how he frames research alongside real-world examples, why flexibility matters more than rigid systems, and how effective communication helps bridge the gap between academics and athletics. Keane also shares insight into the future of strength coaching, accreditation, and the return to foundational training principles.
Key Takeaways
- Bridging theory and practice strengthens both coaching and education
- Real-world examples help athletes and students understand research
- Flexibility is essential for long-term athlete development
- Communication builds trust between coaches, athletes, and academics
- Foundational strength training remains critical despite evolving trends
- Accreditation will continue to professionalize the field
Quote
“I’ll show what the research says, what I actually do in practice, and usually there’s a middle ground where both sides meet.” — Keane Hamilton
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Samson (00:00)
How do you bridge the gap between the theory side of the actual academic piece and then the actual training piece from the athletic side?
Keane Hamilton (00:07)
Yeah, absolutely. So on the on the teaching side, I always try and I’ll try and frame it on on both sides and show, OK, kind of here’s maybe what’s the research or here’s what the textbook says. Here’s what I see in actual practice, which is where I feel like I get to cheat a little bit, whereas I can directly see be like, OK, here’s what this says. Here’s what I actually am doing. And while I’ll use real examples of I’ll show them sample programs of mine, testing, things like that. And so I’ll try and frame both sides and I try and do my best to keep
my opinion out of it, but I’ll definitely say like, okay, here’s how I feel about this. Here’s what the research says. And then we’ll kind of try and come to a consensus. A lot of times there’s a middle ground. I’m very happy to have arguments in class. I think that’s, that’s super useful too.
Samson (01:10)
What’s going on Sampson Strength Coach collective listeners on today’s episode. We have my friend first title. Okay. ⁓ and then senior lecturer at Appalachian State University, as well as soccer strength and conditioning coach, Keane Hamilton. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Keane.
Keane Hamilton (01:27)
You got it, Connor. Glad I could make it.
Samson (01:29)
I’m very excited for this because there’s a lot of things I have wanted to ask you about. And I said, you know what? We should just record this and then probably make a better podcast than just leaving this conversation just between us. So, well, can you just give us a background in your career and what’s led you to App State and especially being on both the academic and athletics side.
Keane Hamilton (01:36)
There you go.
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ Man. Yeah. Like you said, I’m definitely a unique case. I might have kind of a ⁓ different path than a lot of people you’ve kind of talked to so far, as far as the podcast goes. But my bachelor’s degree is in exercise science from a little division two school in Southern Colorado, Fort Lewis college. ⁓ had, if I’m being honest, very little interest in academics or school. was there to play soccer. That was kind of my main goal for.
for being there. And then exercise science was just basically felt like the least boring classes or felt like it had the most kind of in common with my sport, which I imagine there’s a handful of strength coaches that can relate to that. Yeah, absolutely. So we did not have a strength and conditioning coach, a little division two school. We basically the assistant coaches would like Google workouts in the off season. We didn’t train during season. We’d be doing like some circuit workout from
commends health magazine or something in the off season. So my, as far as strength conditioning experience in college was not much. And then my brother and I doing, you know, like bench press and bicep curls in the summer, you know, in the, far as off season training goes. and then my senior year, I had to do an internship and a CrossFit gym had just opened in town. and the owner was also competing in Olympic weightlifting. so that was kind of the first, my first introduction to any sort of like
proper strength training was, through that internship where, you know, I thought I was, you know, in pretty good shape and athlete, those sorts of things. And then all of a sudden I’m trying to do Olympic lifts or I’d never even done, you know, real heavy squats, anything like that. So, uh, that was kind of my first introduction there. Uh, and then from graduating, I spent about two years, like basically getting cut from pro teams, trying to play, trying to have a
a sport career. And then like in the meantime, I had to, you know, do something to make money off season, things like that. And I just started doing personal training and coaching. I think it’s a fairly typical athlete thing of like, well, this personal pay you to train them, that sort of thing. So, ⁓ was just doing that on the side to make money and then realized that the kind of the personal training route was not where I wanted to go, but I really enjoyed the few athletes that I was working with. And I was doing a bunch of sport coaching, things like that on the side.
⁓ and then started my master’s degree two years later. ⁓ there was a really cool opportunity. went to university college, Dublin in Ireland. And they had a program where it was kind of, was coaching and exercise science was the title. ⁓ but there, professional rugby team in Dublin, training facility was attached to the university and all the kind of hands-on strength conditioning courses were taught by their actual strength coaches. So I spent basically a whole semester.
Where we do classroom part-time and then we’d be in their weight room part-time. and I got to play, I was on a, on a team over there and got to play a little bit of soccer as well. ⁓ coming out of that, I moved back to the States. I took over, I was running like a young athlete strength conditioning program, mainly for high school athletes. It was kind of like a college prep. So athletes that had, were trying to go play in college or had accepted college offers and were trying to train and get ready. ⁓ and so I was running that program.
and then I got an offer. I was actually the assistant soccer coach and a strength and conditioning coach at my former school at Fort Lewis. so that was 2017. ⁓ so that was my first like full-time college job, but again, at a small division two schools. So I was assistant coach with men’s soccer. I was doing two or three teams each semester. And I picked up, that’s when I started teaching. was, they had a strength and conditioning class. And so I was also an adjunct instructor.
Samson (05:10)
you
Keane Hamilton (05:38)
⁓ so it’s one of those where, as again, a lot of strength coaches can probably relate where you’re doing three or four jobs to, make what probably should be one salary’s worth. ⁓ and then really, really liked the teaching side. And then when COVID hit, just kind of started looking for jobs because that was just not a sustainable with the workload I was doing. ⁓ again, relatable for, for strength coaches where, you know, I was 6 a.m. in the weight room. I would.
teach a class during the day. I’d be with the soccer team in the afternoon and then occasionally doing like private stuff on the side, whatever, after that and three years, I was pretty cooked as far as ⁓ that much, much workload. And then, ⁓ yeah, app state had posted this really cool job. It was actually during COVID when I actually had time to kind of, ⁓ relax and look into stuff like this. And they were looking for a lecturer with specialty in strength conditioning who also had teaching experience, which again, just
by accident, basically I had set myself up really well for, for this position, um, and I applied and got it. And then as far as my strength and conditioning role at App State, had originally, uh, had a connection with, uh, the men’s soccer assistant coach. Again, the athletics world being a very, very small world as, as you know, like everyone kind of knows each other in some way. Um, so I was originally going to work with the men’s program and they ended up getting cut as part of a
the COVID funding, all of that going on. And so my first year here, basically I was teaching Zoom classes, everything was online. And then the women’s program had just got a new GPS system and they were reaching out and looking for help managing that. And it got pointed in my direction. And then I ended up taking over their entire thing as far as all their performance stuff, the sports science, strength and conditioning, everything along those lines. And now I’m almost…
five and a half years in, so.
Samson (07:33)
That’s I mean it’s such a cool story to me and I appreciate hearing about it and actually getting to know the full thing in one go because I’ve kind of picked up pieces here and there obviously working with you and so I mean truly it just kind of came out of necessity for you to have this kind of joint position where it was like okay if you’re gonna work at Fort Lewis you have to be an adjunct professor as well too it kind of just came up like out of you have to do this right.
Keane Hamilton (07:40)
Yeah.
Absolutely. And then, I mean, I know a lot, like at those smaller universities, the strength coach or a sport coach, you’re also teaching, you know, some of the PE classes or something like that. And I just managed to, you know, kind of put things together where like other ways to make money, but made it kind of specifically with, things I really wanted to do and was fortunate enough to make all that happen. ⁓ again, and being at a university that you went to helps as well.
The department chair was a professor that I had had when I was in college and liked me, things like that that just kind of made life easier going through.
Samson (08:30)
Yeah, but I’ve been at the same time though. You’ve certainly made the most out of it. It’s fantastic to see what you can do with it. You know, I think back to we were on the bus a couple of weeks ago and coach Kearns, our head basketball coach was telling me ⁓ the other week that when they were at Wofford, he had to teach a badminton class. It’s crazy how sometimes this stuff can come out of necessity, but you’ve been able to turn into a full time career where you really get to blend two sides that to me can be a little bit distant from each other at times. ⁓ What is your
Keane Hamilton (08:46)
Yeah, exactly.
Samson (09:00)
advice because I do hear lot of all the interns here. They’re always like, I kind of want a keen type position. You know, I would really like to be a professor and I’d really like to be a strength and conditioning coach. And I always have to tell them, well, Keen’s the first one I’ve ever met who does this. So it’s extremely rare, you know, but if somebody were interested in looking at the academic side and the athletic side, what would be your advice to
Keane Hamilton (09:23)
Yeah, I think it’s the big one is just building the foundation that sets you up for if those opportunities do come around, you are kind of qualified and able to do it. Whereas I see a lot of people will just stick with working with their one specific thing and then we’ll apply for a job they don’t necessarily have experience in. And so kind of branching out and working on some of those little areas, as far as first for strength coaches, universities are always looking for adjuncts and it’s the pay is not great.
You know, you’re working with hours. Sometimes you’re just working as a TA or grading, things like that. but just getting some experience in the classroom and on the teaching side. And I actually think it’s a fairly easy transition for strength coaches because again, talking in front of people, being able to run a room, things like that. It’s a really good transition. ⁓ because I see academics come in with teaching where people have spent their whole life focusing on research and in a lab. And sometimes they, they struggle with that side a little bit. ⁓
kind of having that foundation and then the academic background as well where you’re qualified to speak about some of those pieces as well.
Samson (10:29)
Yeah, no doubt, absolutely. mean, but again, it’s one of those where it’s very cool to be able to think about, OK, let’s be on the academic side. And then let’s also actively apply it and work with the team and see all these ⁓ new research methods actually be applied instead of teaching other coaches how to do it. How has your experience been being on both the academics and athletic side?
Keane Hamilton (10:40)
Mm-hmm
Yeah, I think I’m hopeful that more of these are going to actually become kind of more common, especially with the route like the NSCA is going as far as accreditation and, you know, people taking the exam in the future are going to have to go through an accredited program. So I actually think positions like mine might become more popular. have a grad student recently. ⁓ He just got a job at Ithaca University. You’ll probably be more aware of it up in New York ⁓ where he, it’s a
actual joint position where it’s built in where he’s basically 50-50 and I mean that makes more sense at you know, maybe Division 3 school ⁓ Things like that, but I do think it’ll become more common because in my experience there has been a pretty big gap between the relationship ⁓ in Academics and athletics even when I first when I first got here I mean we would send a couple interns over to athletics, but besides from that there was basically zero relationship
⁓ terms of that goes, so I think kind of having someone who’s almost a middle man, even just for a communication standpoint, because, ⁓ as you know, in the university system, it’s really easy and everyone, how busy everyone is, things like that. You get very caught up in what you’re working on. and I think we miss out on a lot of kind of good opportunities going through. So I think for me, it started out just being willing to kind of do whatever it took over with athletics. And then it was.
Honestly, a couple of years of like slowly building relationships, showing how things can be valuable to both sides. ⁓ Unfortunately, obviously finances are definitely a factor and a way in. And I think that’s one of the big ways people can get in where cost sharing of things that benefit both sides. I see all the time where, you know, whether athletics or academics separately have bought something that’s the same thing that they could have shared costs on things like that. ⁓
I think having someone who just from a communication standpoint is in the middle of both sides has been huge.
Samson (12:52)
Yeah, I can first hand say that it’s been huge. think it’s been extremely helpful being on the athletic side. You know, I think there’s two places that my mind kind of goes and I think about the bridge between athletics and academics. And the first one is kind of just the relationship piece between the departments as a whole. And the second one is going to be kind of more of the, all right, the actual theory and applying the knowledge versus what it can realistically look like from a strength and conditioning standpoint. I want to first start with the relationship piece. You know, it’s pretty common.
Keane Hamilton (13:15)
Mm-hmm.
Samson (13:22)
where I’ve been that a lot of, like you said, a lot of schools don’t really have a great ⁓ academic and athletic partnership. There’s not really a lot of, ⁓ you know, cross talk between the two. I mean, I remember at University of Tennessee, they hated working with anybody who was a GA or part-time coach within strength and conditioning. And I understand it too, because I wasn’t the best student. And anytime I wasn’t in class, I was over on the strength and conditioning side. And I would just say, okay, well, I can’t wait to get back to strength and conditioning. I want to do this, right?
Keane Hamilton (13:40)
Is that good?
Samson (13:51)
And so it doesn’t help the relationship to see those things. But ultimately, what do you think are the key points between building that relationship and sustaining?
Keane Hamilton (14:03)
Yeah, so I 100 % agree that a lot of times people are either focused too much on one or the other, where, you know, like you have a GA who is going to class because they have to, and then, you know, wants to spend all the other time on their side, or the other side where people are just here for research going through. And I think honestly, the biggest piece, especially here that’s helped is showing how applied and practical the academic program actually is, where
I think we do a really good job here. We’re spoiled. have, you Dr. Travis Triplett as our head of our department for undergrad, at least. Uh, and you know, we have an applied and a theory strength and conditioning class. They have to take exercise prescription. They’re taking sport nutrition, uh, sports psychology, all of these kinds of very applied applicable classes that I think it’s a really easy sell to those students that want to be on the
you know, practical side, they want to be in the weight room, where it’s easy for us to demonstrate how this is directly benefiting you in that way. You’re not sitting there and yes, they need to get through exercise physiology, you need to get through anatomy, all of those pieces. But you know, at their junior and senior level, they’re not just sitting there memorizing things that they’re going to forget, you know, a month later, they’re, you know, putting into practice. So I think that demonstration is has been a big one for us.
Samson (15:23)
Yeah, no doubt. I think it’s very beneficial because I think back to when I took exercise physiology in grad school, I mean, again, I was like, well, do I really need to know the steps of the Krebs cycle? And then it’s funny because we come back to it where I now just finished another anatomy class. We’ve had this conversation a couple of times where it’s like, well, I really did wish I made a little bit better retention. so I think if it was kind of…
Keane Hamilton (15:42)
Mm-hmm
Samson (15:48)
it presented to me in the theme of strength and conditioning. So like if it was anatomy for strength and conditioning, my simple brain would say, okay, great. Then I can really, you know, learn this and really help out. So I certainly appreciate what you’re saying, you know, but go ahead. Do you have anything?
Keane Hamilton (16:00)
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, just an added on that. I mean, I, there’s plenty of our classes that I wouldn’t pass right now, like in our, in our department, right? ⁓ cause again, what I’m teaching is, very, very specific. And then when I find I learned the most is, you know, if I have an athlete that has an injury or something specific come up and I got to dive in and get back into, okay, what’s the research say? And I’m learning more like structurally things like that. ⁓ that, you know, there just is, you’re not going to retain everything and, know, putting it in that.
Yeah, framing it like you said is helpful.
Samson (16:35)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think from when we look at it from an athletic side to academic side, because you obviously mentioned, OK, this is how the academic side can be very beneficial. I think back to when my first exposure to this was at Texas Tech, where we did a study with Dr. John Harry. We actually just completed another one here at App. But Texas Tech is obviously a very high level research institution. So they’re constantly looking for research. And one of the best candidates for researcher, or some of the best, are going to be
the actual athletes on teams because this is applied performance. These are people who are actively doing the things that research looks into. And so he reached out to me and said, can we do a force plate study ⁓ with your team? And we ended up doing a full, he calls them force platforms. He’d be horrified if he heard me say force plates. so we use the force platforms and basically we get all this extremely helpful information and he gets test subjects for his research. And it was really cool because ultimately,
I’m not the exercise science guru, right? My strengths are much more on the, building relationships, getting people to buy into the weight room. And I understand that, right? So I found somebody who was helping me out from the sports science side. And I remember one of our best players, she was an all-American, first team, two years in a row. And he was saying, well, look, her, I couldn’t even remember, I can’t even tell you right now what the metrics were. All I know was that she was seeing an asymmetry that was growing and he was concerned about it. And then it turned out she actually had a stress reaction.
which we prevented from becoming a stress fracture because we shut her down a little bit earlier and we’re able to reduce those things. And so we got this instant information back and he got a research for the long run that really helped him. And it’s been a really beneficial relationship. So I think again, the athletic side kind of just sees it as, well, academics may just want, you know, test subjects or they just want to use the athletes. It’s not really the case. Like obviously that’s helpful for the academic side, but at the same time,
It can be really beneficial to the athletic side too.
Keane Hamilton (18:34)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think that hopefully will become more and more common that we’re aware of that as we get kind of more practitioners, right? And with like on both sides of the fence here.
Samson (18:45)
Yeah, absolutely. So now I kind of want look at the theory side a little bit because again, it frustrates me when I hear ⁓ the conversations in the strength and conditioning side about, well, research isn’t going to be super beneficial to what we’re trying to do or, ⁓ you know, some of the standards that people put out are not realistic for ⁓ the actual strength and conditioning, you know, limitations or what the weight room actually looks like or all of the multitude of factors that come with the athletic side. So,
How do you bridge the gap between the theory side of the actual academic piece and then the actual training piece from the athletic side?
Keane Hamilton (19:25)
Yeah, absolutely. So on the on the teaching side, I always try and I’ll try and frame it on on both sides and show, OK, kind of here’s maybe what’s the research or here’s what the textbook says. Here’s what I see in actual practice, which is where I feel like I get to cheat a little bit, whereas I can directly see be like, OK, here’s what this says. Here’s what I actually am doing. And while I’ll use real examples of I’ll show them sample programs of mine, testing, things like that. And so I’ll try and frame both sides and I try and do my best to keep
my opinion out of it, but I’ll definitely say like, okay, here’s how I feel about this. Here’s what the research says. And then we’ll kind of try and come to a consensus. A lot of times there’s a middle ground. I’m very happy to have arguments in class. I think that’s, that’s super useful too. Because again, with the amount of information out there, things they’re seeing, right? Whether it’s social media, whatever it is, it’s, it’s generally, there’s a dash of truth in everything. But I also think on the research side,
If you are finding the right people, there’s a lot of good examples right now where it’s not just locked away in a lab, completely shut out from the practical side, as far as research goes. Like we were very lucky. ⁓ Dr. Paul Comfort, who’s over in the UK, he’s probably the lead researcher in the world on power right now, was on campus last year and came in and did guest lectures. And he has just stacks and stacks of data where he’s working with professional rugby teams, pretty much
All the professional soccer players in the UK are coming through his lab and he’s doing performance testing on them. And he’s showing like, here’s their metrics. He can cross check that with injury rates, all these different things. So there are good examples out there. And I think it’s getting better where research isn’t kind of shut away in a lab and, you know, hard to apply that people are doing this research, like you said, on real subjects, on athletes that are
similar population to who you are working with, ⁓ where you can find a lot of good examples. So I do my best to present both. also do my best to not, you know, produce little copies of me, whereas you’re probably aware a lot of times, and I was I was guilty this too, coming out where whichever coach you had just worked with, you were just programming or coaching, you’re just kind of a copy of who you’re most with. And then, you know, in the long run, you kind of piece everything together and develop your own philosophy, things like that. So I try and give them
those tools as well.
Samson (21:53)
I appreciate that because that is certainly an experience of the internship that a lot of people see because I truly try to start every intern I have with the main phrase which is like, I believe in this system, I do this, right? It does not mean that it’s the only way to do it and it is certainly a lot of people would argue against me and say it’s not a good way to do it at all. So ultimately, please take what you learn from here and then go to other places and then learn from there further.
Keane Hamilton (21:59)
you
Samson (22:21)
So that’s why I’m excited. Rory’s going to UNC, which is going to be pretty opposite to what she learned here. ⁓ Rory is, for the listeners, one of our interns that was also one of Keene’s students. But she’s going to learn something that’s going to be different and it’s going to be really beneficial to her in the long run because you want to get exposed to these different systems. ⁓ I think you bring up a great point too about the research because that’s kind of the main criticism that I hear is from other strength conditioning coaches where they say, well, it’s all siloed in these perfect conditions, in these…
Keane Hamilton (22:29)
Mm-hmm.
Well, whoever’s that?
Samson (22:48)
⁓ labs that are completely separate from the actual strength and conditioning side. They don’t know what it’s like when a coach cuts your lift to only 15 minutes for the day. And it can be a little bit of ⁓ frustration that I hear from coaches, which is understandable, but at the same time, I think a little bit complaining as well too. ⁓ You mentioned researchers who are out and actively doing work with active subjects and people who are actively participating in sport. Are there any other researchers that you really like right now or any?
people that you think that other strength and conditioning coaches should be aware of doing research like this.
Keane Hamilton (23:22)
I think honestly, Dr. Comfort’s my favorite right now. We’re spoiled here at App with Dr. Jeff McBride, who’s one of the leading in the field, especially with plyometrics and things in that nature. Yeah, the reason I like Dr. Comfort so much is looking at the discrepancies between power and strength as your base and looking at kind of injury risk, things like that. ⁓ Fun one with him, he’s finding that on the soccer side, a lot of the athletes, power numbers are really, really good.
strength numbers, not so much, which again can make you prone for injury risk if you’re really, really fast explosive, but maybe don’t have the strength to handle that. And then on the rugby side, it’s the opposite, right? Whereas like the strength numbers are just through the roof, but then, you know, the power side, because there’s such larger athletes, things like that. So, ⁓ just really good as far as, observations go kind of through that route.
Samson (24:14)
Yeah, that’s exciting. You know me, I’m a big strength guy, so I always love to talk about strength, but power is obviously a key piece of the sport too. So ⁓ I appreciate those insights.
Keane Hamilton (24:19)
Absolutely.
⁓
but, but yeah, then you bring up, you know, I like that point as far as talking about whether it’s strength and conditioning, complaining, coaches cutting your lift time, things like that. And I think that’s where I also will try and do kind of real world scenarios in class where it’s not like, okay, here’s the information, write a program, right? Cause that’s honestly pretty easy where that’s just science. You can just kind of plug things in, right? So, okay, we’re looking for hypertrophy. I can take this mini sets reps, this intensity good to go.
where I think that’s where the scientific foundation is how that better understanding of, you know, exercise physiology, adaptation timelines, recovery timelines, things like that, where, I mean, I’ll have times where it was supposed to be an hour and a half practice, it ends up being two hours and they’re coming to lift right afterwards and they’re exhausted. And it’s like, okay, how do you still kind of get the stimulus you wanted from that lift without causing some harm or things like that? So I’ll, I’ll try and show those at our athlete or
my students that of, here’s what you’d like to do. You only get to lift on Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Okay, so the split you planned, completely irrelevant. How can you actually make this happen? Because the logistics side in college athletics at least is actually probably the most difficult, whereas it’s kind of a combination between art and science where there’s not a perfect blueprint for it. And having those kind of foundational understandings, I think can help you work through that a little bit more.
Samson (25:51)
Yeah, I mean, I think back to my own experience this season, right? We played, I think it was nine games before Thanksgiving break, which is a ton of games, ⁓ and six, we had six travel trips, right? So, and we’re spending a lot of time on the road. ⁓ And so access to weight room is very limited. And then right before Thanksgiving, it was what we played Friday, two days off. No, sorry, we played Friday, ⁓ day off, played ⁓ Sunday, two days off, then played.
⁓ Thursday and there’s Wednesday and then we took Thanksgiving day off and then we have this massive break in between, right? And so it’s so funny to me because I’ll tell new interns, I don’t really program. Like I have an idea of what I want from a macro cycle standpoint, meso cycle, right? Like I have, know what I want to fit in and I know what the exercises are and what the goals of the program are. But at the same time, if I were to program month by month, ⁓ especially in season, it’s going to be miserable.
And we’re not gonna be able to fit into the things that I want. even now, have this week and a half break essentially. We lifted on ⁓ Thursday, very heavy, which I get excited about, right? And then we come back on Sunday, we go heavy again, and then we’re supposed to lift Monday, Tuesday. And obviously today’s Tuesday. And so ⁓ yesterday, we always lift after practice because I specifically wanna be able to know what I need to avoid or what I need to change.
Right before practice started our coach goes well, I don’t know if there’s gonna be enough conditioning in practice today We might need to ramp this up and I said, okay so our lower body volume is immediately gonna go down, right because Ultimately, there’s a lot of different factors you think about finals week that it is right now where? Strict injury rates go through the roof because everybody’s not sleeping. They’re studying. They’re stressed out So there’s so many different factors that you have to consider So I appreciate giving the real-world examples because it’s pretty much all I do especially in season
Keane Hamilton (27:40)
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, ⁓ it’s really, really tough when it comes to in season, especially I like you, how you mentioned the goals of the program, which is I think the main thing to have in mind. Cause yeah, in class, we obviously do an annual training plan and then we’ll break it down through different macro cycle phases that I’m like, okay, this is all great. It’s going to get thrown out the window. ⁓ and then kind of understanding how your week looks like what’s recovery take, little things like that. And then what’s the goal of the program? Like in season, if it’s strength maintenance.
Okay, if we were doing, you know, sets of five sets of three, all right, we’re gonna build to a heavy, you’re gonna do one heavy rep today. That’s it, we’re gonna get a strength stimulus. I’m gonna get some blood flow to maybe the important accessory stuff. And we’re gonna get out of here, right? Because you’re not, can’t make that much improvement in one day. You can do a lot of damage in one day. So being aware of all that is crucial.
Samson (28:28)
you bring up an excellent point. certainly could do a lot of damage in one day. And I’ll never forget my first year at Texas Tech, we hit heavy squats, it was like four by three, all at 85, 90%, whatever it was, right? And then we played in two days and everybody’s like, I’m exhausted. And I’m like, I wonder why? There’s certainly nothing that I did that could have contributed to this.
Keane Hamilton (28:47)
⁓
Absolutely.
Samson (28:53)
Can you talk to me a little bit about the accreditation piece? Because this is something that I’ve heard from yourself and Dr. Triplett a lot. And can you just detail what it is and what it’s gonna look like and then ultimately why it’s important for the field?
Keane Hamilton (29:07)
Yeah, absolutely. So we’re going through our NSCA accreditation right now and what it is, I forget what year specifically, I think it’s around 2030. To sit for the CSCS, you will have to have graduated from an accredited college program. Basically, it’s just becoming a more professional model, similar to how an athletic training student, a dietician, anyone in those fields would have to sit through an accredited program to sit for the exam. Because I mean, and right now,
It’s shifted a little bit already, whereas originally it was just any four year degree. Now it has to be related in the exercise science field. ⁓ it’s just adding another level of kind of professionalism that says, okay, if someone has this certification, it gives an employer or whoever it is more confidence that that person has been through a more specific background as far as both education and experience. Cause the big thing this does is it also expands on the internship requirements. So.
Now they will have to have a minimum hours and different internship experiences. The internship experiences have to be more specific and cover certain competencies. Their educational side, the background, they’ll have to have gone through actual strength conditioning courses, which I think is all just gonna kind of lead to better growth in the field and potentially kind of narrow and make it more specific where that CSCS means probably even a little bit more than it does at the moment.
Samson (30:34)
Yeah, think that’s huge. And it makes me think of my wife’s process of becoming a registered dietitian, right? It’s very different than becoming a strength coach. And I remember when I first started out, I was working with a football team. And there were strength coaches who were just former players. And they keep coming back. they majored in general studies. don’t even know what their major was. And now they just found the strength and conditioning side. And it doesn’t mean you can’t be a great strength coach. But at the same time, ⁓ it’s
Keane Hamilton (30:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Samson (31:03)
One, to me, there’s a safety risk with that, right? Where you don’t understand the basic principles. You don’t understand what progressions have to look like. ⁓ And so we avoid situations like, ⁓ you know, I think back to McNair and other athletes who have unfortunately seen ⁓ the wrong end of how it can go if you don’t progress appropriately. But then another piece too is the legitimacy of the profession. That’s something I talk about a lot on this podcast and a lot of people bring up is that they want to
Keane Hamilton (31:26)
Huh.
Samson (31:31)
Be taken seriously and they don’t want to just be known as you know, like what the gorilla in the boardroom meeting You know who just talks about weights and then leaves after that, right? ⁓ Ultimately strength conditioning coaches and as you know can really be an assistant coach and spend more time with the athletes than the other coaches and so I think just being moving away from just the weights guy and having more informal education background is really beneficial for the profession and as I mentioned like
Keane Hamilton (31:36)
you
Samson (32:01)
My wife had to go through a year of grad school. There were specific hours that she had to do. And then there was a board exam at the end. And this is what separates registered dieticians from nutritionists, which is a big difference. now their big fight is getting people to find out what the difference is between those two, right? ⁓ But ultimately with the accessibility for something like the CSCS, ⁓ changing it to where you have to go through an accredited program, you have to be.
Keane Hamilton (32:17)
Right.
Samson (32:28)
⁓ directly involved with a certain amount of hours, think it’s really beneficial for the career as a whole.
Keane Hamilton (32:33)
Yeah, 100%. And yeah, like you said, and coming from a lot of where strength and conditioning started, especially in college athletics was just old football programs, which were really the first ones that were lifting. And there’s still a lot of kind of leftovers from that of, you know, where kids were getting rabdo or things were popping up, which is why the NCAA originally put requirements on a lot of this. And so just think it’s becoming better and better. got to see, it was fun getting to see the strength conditioning side.
in the UK. ⁓ When I was in Ireland, especially rugby is kind of the top sport there, whereas they don’t have that background where kind of leftovers from football in the strength conditioning world. And all of theirs was kind of started from scratch in his very, very scientific base, where they were regularly testing all their own athletes, they were attached to the university. So they’re doing their own research in house, and they’re showing like, okay, here’s
The results we got when we did box squat instead of back squat. Here’s the results. And everything had a really, really good why and a scientific foundation where they’re doing kind of in-house testing and showing exactly why everything works. And I think it’ll, it’ll help that side as well when you know, the, background is more specific here.
Samson (33:49)
instead of the ever classic, well, that’s how we’ve always done it, right? There’s a why behind everything. And I appreciate you bringing that up, because I really was curious about this. Obviously, I love Ireland. We’ve talked about this a couple of times separately. But would you recommend to students to take opportunities like that and go abroad and see how strength and conditioning is done across the world? Because it’s quite different than how it is in the United States.
Keane Hamilton (33:52)
Correct.
Hmm
100 % and it’s like you said, it’s very, it’s very different. It’s, feel like it’s getting closer and closer together. The biggest difference I saw and again, this was, you know, a little over 10 years ago now. So things have become even more kind of closely aligned was, was how kind of scientific the base was with, with everything. It’s becoming more and more common. When I was there, rugby was kind of the main sport where it was in this very professional model and it’s, it’s slowly grown.
⁓ opportunities on the women’s side are slowly growing over there as well. That’s getting, especially in the last five years, the professionalism and the funding for a lot of that has gotten much, much better. So yeah, students have the opportunity. had a absolutely fantastic experience. And I mean, you can probably attest to this with your internships. I mean, the six months I spent in that weight room, I mean, going back and forth classroom weight room, that six months in, you know, six years of education, it’s not even close how much I learned compared to the rest. Like I could have.
basically cut out most of it. If I just had that six months, I’d have, you know, 95 % of what I’m doing now from an education standpoint.
Samson (35:18)
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s again what was conversation we had a little bit earlier, right? But that’s again why I recommend interns to go to as many places as possible because I’ll speak with coaches and it’s always the classic, you know, I’ll meet with another basketball strength coach on the court before the game. And they’re like, so where have you been? Right. And then I’m like, okay, I’ve been here, here, here, here, here. And kind of one of the things that people will say is why you’ve been a lot of different places. Like I couldn’t move that much. And it’s like, I understand that piece. You know, there’s certainly different routes that people want to take, but.
Keane Hamilton (35:34)
Mm-hmm.
Samson (35:47)
Because of that, I got exposed to a lot of really different high level systems. And it really hammered into my brain that a lot of different things work. It’s about integrating them all together and making sure that it works best for you in your specific situation. Like I think back to UPenn with Jim Steele, where there’s a lot of powerlifting based and a lot of strength based work. I think back to the football side of Tennessee, which was tier system based. And then I think over to…
the Olympic side, was INAL values and understanding the, know, I can go on and on about, I really can’t about INAL values. That was a high level system. I still don’t really understand, but you know, Texas Tech was triphasic. So all these different schools kind of specialize in a specific thing. And so being able to get exposed to these different things is exciting, but to then bring it to an international level is huge because I’ve spoken with, ⁓ he’s a, tactical strength coach who currently lives in Europe.
but he gets to really meet a lot of different coaches from different areas. So from the UK, from Australia, from ⁓ Italy, a lot of different systems and how people operate. And it was funny because he kind of broke it down to me like, well, Australia is really good at this. The UK is really good at this. America is really good at this. Italy is really good at this. And so imagine if you were just siloed within the United States system, if you could actually branch out and see what other people are good at, it becomes exciting.
Keane Hamilton (36:47)
food.
That’s not even…
Yeah, and it just gives you more options for solutions to different problems. mean, we have an ongoing joke in class that it depends is the correct answer for every question I ask. Because students ask like, well, is this good? Is this the right? I’m like, well, I mean, can you make a good argument for it? Because then yes, right? ⁓ Because like you said, there’s so many right answers. There’s probably better and worse in a lot of cases, but there’s so many different ways to get to that.
you know, your main goal and you know, the more you’re exposed to, and I mean, you’ll appreciate this. The other thing as part of, my master’s degree is we had to do a coaching class where you developed your own personal philosophy and it showed examples of how different coaches, both from a coaching standpoint, and then also just what you do as a prac on the practical side has to be kind of specific to what you believe in as well. Or it’s, you know, it’s really not going to work. So
Samson (38:06)
Yeah, absolutely. And I do certainly appreciate that. ⁓ You know, the final piece that it makes me kind of think of too is with the ⁓ I cannot remember if it’s through NSCA or CSCCA right now, you may be able to help me with this. the exchange program with Australian coaches where they’ll have an Australian coach come and speak at a conference here in the United States. And then ⁓ a United States coach goes over and speaks at a conference in Australia, because I think this flow of information is very beneficial.
My only exposure has been when I’m trying to get somebody to talk to me about force platforms and they’re much better versed in them and they typically happen to be not American. ⁓ So that’s my exposure. But I think increasing those touch points becomes huge. And like you say, in a profession where everything is gray, everything is it depends, ultimately the better you can increase your knowledge base, the better your solution ⁓ problem solving is gonna be.
Keane Hamilton (38:43)
Right.
100%. Yeah. And that’s, think that’s really what’s going to separate, ⁓ as far as really good coaches on the strength and conditioning side is, I mean, number one, it’s the soft skills, your people skills, all of that. And then as far as the programming planning side, it’s, you know, how can you solve complex problems? Because again, they’re gonna happen. Right. And it’s gonna, you’re going to run into scenarios that you haven’t seen before or things where you’re making changes on the fly in the last minute. And, and do you kind of have that toolbox?
Samson (39:29)
Yeah, absolutely. Let me, this might be a bad question, which is my favorite question to ask as a podcast host, right? You know, there’s a lot of trends that you kind of end up seeing or things that have become popular. remember Triphasic was really big for a long time. Now it’s kind of at VBT being on the academic side. Do you see any trends that are coming up now or anything that people have a lot of interest in?
Keane Hamilton (39:53)
I think strength becoming cool again. I think we’ve circled all the way back. Yeah. I think we went through a lot of, I don’t know what to call it, the kind of flashier looking stuff and coming back a little bit to a little things that are a little more foundational where I don’t know if it was, you know, between social media, whatever it is, is there so many things that got popular between things that look really good. They look really sport specific.
Samson (39:55)
Thank you!
Keane Hamilton (40:23)
⁓ and again, potentially taking away from what are we actually trying to get out of the weight room? So, ⁓ yeah, I think the importance of some of the foundational stuff and having a better understanding ⁓ of where athletes need to be at as a base before some of that other more specific stuff is really going to be beneficial and important, right? Where I see things of, okay, we’re going to
lift heavy in the weight room and we’re going to do sprinting, hopping, jumping, and kind of that’s the best place to start. And then when you have really high level athletes is where you get to be a little more creative and fun with some of that stuff. So I feel like we’ve, we’ve almost completed the circle with everything we’ve seen, you know, the last 10, 15 years back to some of the basics. Yeah. Right.
Samson (41:10)
Well, that’s very exciting for me to hear. feel validated. ⁓ Well, you know,
it’s funny because that’s how I started off in the field was, ⁓ you know, I mean, the what the first book I ever read was starting strength. And then I went really big into five, three, one ⁓ and then a little bit on the bodybuilding side. So for me, like, strength and conditioning has always been my roots have always been in, OK, let’s just get as strong as possible and lift as much weight as possible. But then what was cool about my education was learning. OK, well, when you have somebody who’s already
Keane Hamilton (41:34)
Mm-hmm.
Samson (41:39)
at a really high strength to body weight ratio, what do you do now? Because ultimately if somebody can put another 20, 25 pounds on their squat when they’re already kind of at the upper echelon of where they need to be strength wise, what does that look like? And now there needs to be answers to those questions. So I’m happy to hear that strength is cool again, but obviously the rest is important too.
Keane Hamilton (41:42)
Yep.
Yeah.
100%. And that’s, think, like you said, of having that, those baselines, whether it’s testing, understanding what strength to weight ratio you’re wanting, whether it’s different sports, different positions, things like that. And then having a good understanding of your individual athletes as well. Cause again, when get to those high levels, like you say, increasing someone’s squat by five, 10 % when they’re already at two times body weight, like the amount of time and effort that’s going to go into that.
⁓ versus, okay, is there something specific we can really work on here to focus on?
Samson (42:30)
Yeah, I think to one of our fifth year grad transfers that we got this year, And it was funny because I kind of had to really take ⁓ a realistic view of it. I was thinking about him and I realized, okay, well, he’s already at a very low body fat percentage. ⁓ He’s already at a great weight for his position. So immediately the one thing that I’m very good at, which is body transformations is gone. ⁓ And then ultimately he’s really strong. So what do I need to figure out for him to have his best year of basketball possible?
And that’s how I thought work testing became very beneficial too, because I could learn, okay, he’s not very great in this specific area, so we can work on these things with him specifically. And it becomes fun, think, and you do solve more problems and you have fun with it and then you get to see people succeed. And truly, I’m sure as you know too, nothing more painful and nothing more feeling like pulling teeth and trying to get a fifth year senior to back squat heavy.
Keane Hamilton (43:29)
100%. They start using that age excuse, which never works on us. And yeah, you’re 100 % right. And then also the understanding that like, there’s some athletes who get to a level where, I mean, the biggest impact you’re making is not going to be improving anything. It’s probably going to be, okay, can we keep this athlete healthy? Can they work more on their sport? Can they work more on that? mean, again, a specific athlete, I have a current athlete now who can run 20 miles an hour.
Samson (43:32)
Yep.
Keane Hamilton (43:56)
which on the women’s soccer side is absolutely ridiculous. I’m not really interested in trying to improve that. She’s got a two times body weight back squat, all these things. And it’s like, okay, my goal in here is to maintain and keep you healthy. Like, what do you maybe need to do? Do you need to spend more time on a specific aspect of your sport? Do you need to spend more time, you know, having those specific goals for your specific athletes and where are you going to spend the most time and energy? You mentioned earlier how
during finals week, injury risk goes up, right? So stress is stress, where, you know, we only have so much time and energy, where do we want to, what bucket do we kind of want to put that into? So.
Samson (44:38)
Yeah, absolutely. think back to, ⁓ we had a guard who I think his standing or his approach vertical jump would have been third highest all time in NBA combine history. And so he’d come in the way room, I’d be like, what do you want to do today? You’re already kind of at the peak. There’s not really much I can do for you. So what’s going to make it fun for Xavier Brown? So, yeah.
Keane Hamilton (44:50)
Yeah, right? Exactly.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think having that flexibility, that’s the other thing I talked about with my students. It’s like, I know you’ve got your program you worked so hard on, it’s written on that piece of paper. It’s, it’s okay to be flexible. Like, it doesn’t mean that’s exactly what they have to do every time they walk in the weight room. So
Samson (45:11)
Yeah.
Yeah. And then again, that’s another, ⁓ you know, big, ⁓ what points or big argument for the side of programming week to week, because ultimately I don’t really get too upset. You know, I’ll write the program out. You know, obviously we’ve still worked within the phases, but for me, you know, when I set up the workouts week to week, because we get our schedule on a weekly basis too, it’s a lot more beneficial and it makes it a lot easier and ⁓ saves a lot of headaches in the long run too. ⁓ And that’s where I see a lot of coaches get frustrated with the sports side because they’re like, well, they didn’t,
Keane Hamilton (45:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Samson (45:46)
They didn’t stick to my plan and I’m like, okay, so at the end of the day, does winning games matter the most? And it’s like, yeah, okay. Cause you will get fired if you don’t win. Right. So ultimately you kind of have to give more credit to the sports side. And if they feel like they need to practice more and they probably need to practice more and we’re a bonus. We’re not the main piece.
Keane Hamilton (46:04)
Exactly. Yeah. We are a supporting aspect, right? Where our goal isn’t to be the best at whatever they’re doing in the weight room. How can we best support, you know, their success on the field, on the court. And like you said, it’s the, it’s the coach’s team. Number one, you need to develop that relationship with the coach. There’s 100 % going to be times where you butt heads. It happens. I’ve had plenty of uncomfortable exchanges, whether it’s long emails or, or in the moment. And that’s, that’s something that’s just.
going to happen and then kind of having that understanding and maybe being able to explain your side of things. All of that is absolutely crucial.
Samson (46:39)
Yeah, absolutely. And having comfortable disagreements where you can actually say, and that’s the whole job of our profession, right? Is to, yeah, I disagree, right? If you’re a yes man all the time, your program’s not going to be probably very good. So being able to disagree and also the next day say hello coach and not feel weird about it, right? Is a huge piece. Yeah, team, team. That’s what my wife and I say all the time. When we’re upset at each other, we say team, team. We’re team, team right now, okay? Don’t forget, same team.
Keane Hamilton (46:44)
Right. You can say I disagree and that’s okay.
Probably.
100 % you’re on the same team. Yeah
Same team, yeah. Perfect.
Samson (47:10)
Okay, so my final question for you, because obviously I have an infatuation with Ireland, what is your favorite memory from your time you spent over in Ireland?
Keane Hamilton (47:15)
Mm-hmm.
that is too tough. ⁓ I would honestly, if the weather was better, I would live there. I would have stayed as far as the people, all that. ⁓ Honestly, favorite memory is going to be the very, very simple ones of like not needing a car, being able to walk to whether there’s a basically a market and a pub on every corner of a neighborhood. ⁓ And it just get to feel like you’re part of a really cool, small community is a huge one for me. But yeah, the
Samson (47:24)
Yeah, absolutely.
Keane Hamilton (47:49)
The people, the place, everything, yeah, 100%.
Samson (47:52)
Yeah,
well, it’s amazing. I always I told my wife if you know, if hurling was a professional sport, I’d be a strength coach for that immediately. ⁓
Keane Hamilton (48:01)
That’s some of the most, maybe the most fun sporting event I’ve ever attended is I went to go to a big hurling game at Croke Park. We’re talking 80,000 people for an amateur sport for guys not getting paid to play. And like the cultural ties to it are so fun. So, ⁓ hate. That stuff goes deep. That’s old.
Samson (48:17)
and they hate each other for free. For free they hate each other.
Yeah, it’s not like Jets versus Patriots where it’s like, all right, we’ve kind of have this rivalry, we kind of got to stick to it. No, it’s like, no, no, no, my family’s hated your family for decades and centuries, honestly, at this point.
Keane Hamilton (48:25)
No. Yeah.
Samson (48:35)
Well, Keane, thank you so much for coming on. I truly appreciate you sharing your insights ⁓ and I mean, ultimately a unique position. So I think it’s very cool to hear from both sides and understand that, ⁓ you know, there doesn’t need to be a gap. It’s something that can ultimately be really beneficial to have academics and athletics have a great relationship. ⁓ If somebody, I don’t even know if I follow you on Instagram, if somebody wants to follow you.
Keane Hamilton (48:56)
I need to
apparently need to up my Instagram game. I’m private account. don’t post. I’m just old enough where if I don’t have to, don’t, I’m not gonna. It’s one of the best things. My favorite thing about being in college athletics as opposed to like the personal training side or private sector is I don’t have to do any advertising, right? I get all my clients are brought to me. So that’s my favorite part.
Samson (49:01)
Okay.
Well,
excellent. Okay. So we will not shout out the Instagram, but we will say thank you.
Keane Hamilton (49:22)
No, that’s all right. People are
welcome to reach out to me. My email is easy to find. How about that? Yeah. ⁓
Samson (49:26)
Excellent, perfect, that’s perfect. Yeah, thank you for providing me with something, so I appreciate it. Well, Keen,
seriously, thank you so much. I appreciate you for coming on.
Keane Hamilton (49:35)
Of course. Thanks, Carter.
