Justin McKenna, Director of Basketball Performance at Bucknell University, joins the Samson Strength Coach Collective to discuss his journey through the strength and conditioning world—from small-school beginnings to experiences at powerhouse programs like Duke and Kentucky. He dives into the importance of being adaptable, filling additional roles that support overall team operations, and developing systems that promote athlete ownership. Throughout the conversation, Justin highlights the role of nutrition, communication, and individualized training in maximizing performance. His perspective emphasizes that success in basketball performance isn’t just about sets and reps, but about providing athletes with the tools, environment, and autonomy to grow.
Key Takeaways
- Justin’s path from Division III athlete to Power 5 performance coach shaped his coaching versatility.
- Building genuine relationships is foundational for athlete buy-in.
- Nutrition and recovery innovations play a critical role in modern performance.
- Strength coaches must adapt to increasing demands and evolving athlete needs.
- Autonomy fosters investment—athletes perform better when they have a say.
- Individualized training strategies are essential in basketball performance.
- Creativity and alternative environments can keep athletes engaged.
- Strength coaches often fill additional roles beyond the weight room.
- Life skills built in sport can prepare athletes for long-term success.
Quote:
“Because at the end of the day, like if they’re more invested, if they feel like they have a stake in what we’re doing, they’re going to give better outputs.” — Justin McKenna
Spotify • YouTube • Apple Podcast
Never Miss An Episode Join Our Newsletter
Justin McKenna :
Because at the end of the day, like if they’re more invested, if they feel like they have a stake in what we’re doing, they’re going to give better outputs. So for me, I really appreciate the curiosity from the players and I’m never going to be the coach that’s like.
It’s my way or the highway. We’re doing X, Y, Z like from the warm up to the accessory block. Like this is how it is. Like I want to give these guys a chance to feel like they have a say.
Samson :
What’s going on, Samson Strength Coach Collective listeners? On today’s episode, we have Justin McKenna, head of basketball performance for Bucknell University up in Pennsylvania. Justin, thank you so much for coming on,
Justin McKenna :
Connor, thanks for having me, man. Really appreciated the long time listener and excited to be a guest.
Samson :
Well, I’m stoked about it. know, to give our listeners some background, we were originally met in the Sun Belt, what, three years ago at this point. And then you left me all alone in the conference after my first year in it. I felt pretty devastated, but to be able to reunite with you is a good thing.
Justin McKenna :
Yep.
Yeah, no question, no question. It’s been a little bit since the Sun Belt days, so it’s good to reunite.
Samson :
You’re in the Patriot League now, right?
Justin McKenna :
Patriot League man, yes sir. Yep, this is going in.
Samson :
way better conference name than the Sunbell.
All right, well, can you just give us a breakdown of your career, your background in strength and conditioning, and then what’s led you to Bucknell?
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, of course. So I guess a little bit about me originally from Portland, Maine area. ⁓ You know, when I grew up in a small working class town, went to a small Division three school called St. Joseph’s College in Maine, and I guess even backtracked before that very similar origin story prior to a lot of strength coaches.
Three sport athlete. I think my passion for training for the sport in the process of improvement in the offseason just continued to grow and unfortunately my athletic ability. Still made it at one point and I was like alright, I see the writing on the wall so I went to a small division three school. Yeah, up in Maine so I think for me ⁓ my my my love for strength and conditioning really grew and you know you you kind of.
dabble in certain areas. At one point early in my college life, I did amateur bodybuilding and you get into like CrossFit and you kind of follow these phases of like training for yourself and then that eventually grows into, I guess, strength and conditioning. And for me, when I was doing my amateur bodybuilding stuff early in my college career, I lived with about five or six different guys in the dorm.
I think maybe four of them were basketball players. So they were seeing me sort of transform my body essentially and see me kind of look leaner and more muscular. that kind of sparked the curiosity of like, I want to get in the gym with this guy or I want to start training a little bit. And so I started training a couple of my roommates and that sort of grew into, and again, small school word of mouth spreads fast, very small rec gym. And so.
probably less than a year and it took me to train the entire team. And that was something that wasn’t really like for credits or a class or an internship. The school I went to didn’t have a strength program. So what I was doing was kind of a little… ⁓
never been seen at least recently. And so it was kind of cool to create like a team culture organically and eventually the head coach pulled me aside after probably a year of training these guys and had asked, you know, if I wanted to get credit for it and kind of be like the designated basketball strength coach at a division three school being St. Joe’s. So kind of a cool origin story. And again, what I was doing back then was probably the definition of bro splits and you know, it was, was upper body, was a chest
day
one day and back the other, but I think that’s all part of the learning process. If you’re not cringing at your old programs, then that’s probably a problem in itself. So, but yeah, so that’s kind of how it got started. ⁓ Once I graduated, maybe three days later, I packed up my Honda Civic and I drove to Durham, North Carolina. I did a summer internship at Duke.
There I was with all the Olympic sports. Didn’t really have a strong affinity to one sport yet, even though I had worked with basketball ⁓ previously. So was really good to get a bunch of different exposures there with 20 plus teams at Duke. I was the only intern. So you talk about starting in the five AMs and ending at six, seven PMs, a lot of work, but I mean, that’s what I was there for. So it was all worth it.
And again, for me, something that again, I’m sure we’ll talk about is sort of my drive and my passion and things like that. So for me, I love the work. really, I love what I do and it didn’t really ever feel like work when I was working long hours there. It’s obviously still do now, but left a good impression to Duke and was able to get a paid internship opportunity at the University of Kentucky.
There I was with assistant women’s basketball and volleyball under coach John Spurlock. And then there honestly was probably one of the most challenging ⁓ but beneficial and impactful stops in my career. ⁓ Up to that point.
know, up at University of Kentucky on the Olympic side is very big on the Olympic lifts and using weightlifting derivatives. And for me, baseball was a big part of my life and we didn’t, I didn’t really have a strength coach. And when I did, wasn’t a lot of weightlifting. And so for me alone,
learning those weightlifting movements and kind of learning people on the fly. That internship class that was a paid internship, they had been together all summer. And so I started in August. I was kind of learning people on the fly that I worked with, learning the student athletes on the fly. So it was a lot. It was pretty stressful. And I made a lot of silly rookie mistakes that I look back at now and I’m like, what am I doing? Or am I just not being detail oriented or organized? Things that I cringe about now.
But yeah, was super impactful learning. appreciate their patience. now ⁓ it’s funny, Coach Spurlock and I, we’ve had some tough conversations when I was there in terms of just being locked in and being organized. And now him and I, we text pretty frequently and stay in touch. And now it’s like he’s someone I know I could talk to about anything. So I appreciate his ⁓ mentorship. That year was COVID. And so right around March,
we all got sent home. And so I went back to Portland, Maine for about six months. And if anyone knows me, they know I’m stubborn and I can’t sit still. And so I had probably a few months in Maine of
kind of just working out outside and just trying to stay busy. I got into the non-contact delivery side, so I was driving Uber Eats and DoorDash and just trying to stay busy and make a buck while I was kind of figuring out what was next. Thankfully, I was able to lock in a graduate assistantship at UT Arlington. At UT Arlington, ⁓ working with all the Olympic sports there as well, was designated the fute that I was programming for, which was great.
Kathy Wagner down there is an amazing mentor. ⁓ I credit her a lot for a lot of ⁓ what I do from an organization and professionalism standpoint as well. I was able to learn a little bit from the basketball strength coaches there as well. So again, sort of sparking my curiosity into how can I work back in the basketball.
I will say like my time in Kentucky being around obviously the women’s basketball program watching at the time coach Rob Harris with the men’s team. If you’re not if you’re around that stuff like basketball at the highest level and there’s not like that spark of like.
kind of want to get into this or like this is really cool and like really engaging, ⁓ then basketball is probably not it for you. And so for me, once I understood and saw that real time and went through that experience, I knew eventually that’s kind of where I wanted to get back to. And so George at UT Arlington.
⁓ You know, just trying to network. I wasn’t working with basketball, but I knew that’s kind of where I wanted to be. So just trying to be intentional. was, you know, Instagram DMs, emails, texting, just trying to network and build my network on the basketball side to maybe set up my next full-time job where that would be. Eventually there was an opening at Georgia Southern University. ⁓ And from there…
connections in the past had paid off and I kind of got my foot in the door there. So I got my first full-time job there and that was with women’s basketball, women’s tennis and I assisted men’s basketball.
And I learned a lot there too, and that’s kind of the theme. like I learned a lot at every stop and I think that’s how it should be for me. You know, being responsible for running women’s basketball and just being fully immersed there was awesome. Assisting men’s basketball when I got hired there was Rick McLaughlin, who’s with the Atlanta Hawks now and then the second year was Zach Holko. And so learning from those guys, learning on my own ⁓ was an amazing experience and I learned a lot.
And what’s funny here is so probably in the fall of 2023, I was presented with some different opportunities as almost like a paid internship role, but to get on the men’s basketball side.
power for institutions. And it was much less in terms of pay, but I knew that I was running into this position of like, if I wanna at least try to get some men’s basketball full-time experience, like what’s the move I have to make here? And so I applied to some of these jobs that was essentially a paid internship and I was already full-time. Not financially, people probably are like, that’s probably not the right move, like what are you doing? ⁓ But I think…
I say all that to say, I think if something matters to you and something like really means it, like you probably have to take necessary action to get there. And I didn’t mind if it was for an academic year, you get paid a little bit less. think my goal is to work on the men’s side and work and be like a men’s and women’s basketball strength coach. So for me, that was kind of.
What I felt like I needed to do Thankfully in the process these guys that hire major schools Recognize that I had a lot of experience and I’ll name drop one Brady Welsh I credit Brady a ton Because he kind of looked out for me and was like hey, man. I think you’re a little overqualified for this job but I will keep an eye out for you. So eventually connected where coach Griffin the men’s coach here at Bucknell
And Brady had similar people, mutual connections, and that kind of got my foot in the door where, this job at Bucknell University is going to be open. And that’s just kind of how it goes sometimes in this field. And so I got on the phone with Coach Woodruff, the women’s basketball coach, and Coach Griff, the men’s coach, and had some really great conversations, went through the interview process. And that fall, I was able to move up to Bucknell and be the men’s women’s basketball strength conditioning coach.
I’ve been here now, this is going on year three. So ⁓ I will say, I will say the biggest thing though has been, you know, in terms of.
The coaching staff, the players here, it’s been a great experience. then being in one game, we’ll talk into this a little bit, the different areas being the head for both programs, some different areas that I didn’t sign up for, that maybe don’t come with the title, have been really, really cool to get a bunch of experience in.
Samson :
That’s awesome. And I love your entire story. I think you have probably one of the coolest origin stories of a strength coach I’ve heard though. And I’ve heard a lot, just being able to work at St. Joe’s and essentially just convert an entire basketball team into lifting. I think it’s so cool. And what I really appreciate about that is, like you said, it was probably bro split. And I remember training guys in college the same way. And it was nothing related to sports performance, everything related to his bodybuilding, getting them bigger. ⁓
Justin McKenna :
No question.
Samson :
But ultimately, that really helped that program because I mean, you kind of ended up being able to train the whole team and then now kind of becomes the standard of, we got to have somebody that we consistently lift with because we know it helps performance. So I think that’s awesome. I’m so glad to hear that’s where you started.
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, no, for sure. At first it was, you know, was a couple guys and it kind of grew and grew and eventually was able to get some credit for it. So yeah, it really cool experience. And again, the programming back then was was not
But at the end of the day, I think it’s kind of a testament to like, if you get guys to buy in, they’ll do anything. And like these guys, like we show up every day for these guys, especially in the position I was where it was like, I had a class schedule, I was unpaid. I was just kind of doing it because I enjoyed it. Like athletes recognize that and they’ll do anything. So yeah, it was really cool experience to get started in my career.
Samson :
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, like you said, if you, ⁓ if you don’t cringe at your old programs, in my opinion, you’re lying, you know, there’s no, or you haven’t changed a thing and you really need to reevaluate some stuff. yeah. Well, one thing that I really appreciate that she’s mentioned is just your ability to learn at each place. And I think that’s something that a lot of people will inherently do is they learn and obviously you make a mistake, you move on, right.
Justin McKenna :
Thank you.
For sure.
Samson :
and you learn from it or if you’re able to work underneath somebody, you can take what you can from them and move on. But it seems very intentional for you. What goes behind that intention? Is it your drive and passion that you mentioned as well?
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, yeah, I think this this field. ⁓ This field for me has been kind of like a resemblance of sports has been my entire life. And for me, you know, being a three sport athlete, basketball, baseball, football, I was always the person that. ⁓
I wasn’t the most skilled. I’ll use basketball for the example. So for me, like I would always like, I always loved defense. I was guarded one of the team’s best players. I dive on the floor for loose balls. You know, I, I wouldn’t score many points. really didn’t care about scoring points. And I was kind of the person that did things that, ⁓ wasn’t the most, wasn’t the most appealing scoring points, highlight plays, whatever. and I think strength and conditioning is a cool correlation to that where it’s like, you’re, you’re the support staff member, right? You’re supporting.
whatever program you’re working with, you’re doing the things behind the scenes that don’t get recognized. And the longer I’ve been in this field, Connor, I think for me, that’s kind of been like a cool similarity that I’ve seen is like my background and how I’ve been wired and all the credit in the world to my parents for raising me, you know, to earn everything that you get and to work hard and to, if you’re gonna do something, do it right.
⁓ as well as my athletic career has kind of almost seamlessly put me into this role now as being a strength and conditioning coach and try to be the best support staff member I can be. But yeah, I think that all stems from passion and work ethic for sure.
Samson :
I love that comparison. think of like a Draymond Green type role ⁓ for strength and conditioning. Somebody who kind of keeps the team together. I love the comparison too in my head. I’m just thinking about it. A lot of people hate on strength coaches because they think they’re loud and obnoxious and just bros. But ultimately they do a lot of work behind the scenes. ⁓ Ultimately, I’ve worked in men’s and women’s basketball at the same time before. kind of know what the…
Justin McKenna :
Thank
Samson :
the other duties as assigned obligation is that comes with working with both teams. But we’ve spoken previously about fitting in and doing, executing roles that essentially are not necessarily the straightening conditioning job, but something that does help the team. Can you talk to me a little bit about your experience with that and then what drives you to really complete those roles?
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, I’ll talk about what I’m doing currently here at Bucknell. And so for us being a Patriot League school, ⁓ in terms of resource, I’d be lying if I said that we were ⁓ perfectly equipped with the staff in terms of dietitians, terms of ⁓ in terms of like sports psych, we have
resources that are available to our student athletes, but sometimes in terms of like a nutrition, for example, we have two dieticians for over 700 athletes. And so sometimes it can’t be a direct one-on-one consultation immediately. Sometimes I have to be the face of that. So I collaborate regularly with our dieticians in terms of things I can present or things I can show in terms of visuals.
I guess to backtrack a little bit, we have a basketball nutrition station in our film room. And so again, it’s nothing crazy, but again, it’s pretty good for, I would say for a Patriot League school. And so for me, I’m responsible for ordering and responsible for managing the budget for that station, bringing on products, know, everything is verified through our sports dietitian. ⁓
And again, it’s answering questions, it’s providing education. ⁓ If again, if people ask for meal plans, that’s something that I defer. I recommend getting your dietitian or getting one on one with your dietitian. But in terms of post practice, pre practice, fueling, ⁓ best recovery practices, I try to make as all the information as digestible as possible. So we do a lot on the nutrition side. And I will say from an administration and from a head coach’s standpoint,
super supportive of basketball programs here. So it’s been a lot easier to whether it’s bringing on new products, ⁓ providing more education. I think it’s been really good to, it’s been really easy to get that on board in terms of support.
Other duties also sports science. ⁓ We you know we use force plates here. We have force decks. ⁓ We have polar heart rate monitors, but we just switched over to player data. So again from a support standpoint, all of our players. There’s a objective pulse on on every player we have from you know live practice ⁓ player load intensities ⁓ to obviously jumps from a neuromuscular standpoint. We can get a little bit of a pulse there.
⁓ And so for me, I think it’s just managing all of those as best as you can. For me, and again, being at a Patriot League school, I want to try to give our players the best experience possible here ⁓ and make it feel as close to a high major as possible. So for us, it’s like, how can we continue to push the envelope and which makes the other duties as assigned for me.
Makes them makes them easy because again at the end of the day, like I’m super passionate about this job. I’m super passionate about trying to continue to develop this program and help coach Griffin and coach Woodruff move their programs forward. And so for me, I’m all in and we’ve done small things where.
⁓ We’ve installed hydration units into our urinals in the locker room. And if nothing else, it’s a cool visual for the guys to see. We bring recruits in there and it’s like just one small little thing where it’s like, you know, they’re in the urinal and it lights up green, yellow or red based on your hydration status. So again, guys get a kick out of it. It gets a competitive juices flowing, but it’s like those small things where, ⁓ you know, I really try to push these guys to win the margins, right? Every program.
in the country, basketball program in the country has strength condition and they’re doing training to some degree. But in terms of nutrition, in terms of the sports science, in terms of their hydration, everything from a recovery standpoint as well like.
I think those are areas that we can really be like a separator from us in our other competition, not only in the Patriot League, any mid major market program, I think is really an advantage. And so when I first got here and I still do it, I am still going to breakfast with the guys. On top of the nutrition station, the coaching staffs were able to get me like a swipe card so I can go eat breakfast with the players and making sure like, least we’re getting breakfast.
to get our day started. And again, at first it’s like, give me a chance to breathe. Like, okay, I get it, like I’m at breakfast, but at the end of the day, like we kind of talked about in the beginning, like if you show investment and you’re just there because, man, like I genuinely care about you and I genuinely want you to succeed and develop, I think nutrition’s a huge part of it. So once they show, once they see that I’m showing investment, I think it just makes the buy-in.
I guess for lack of better term, little bit easier. So, but yeah, a lot of different hats and I think the key to it is all organization, time management, and making sure you’re prioritizing what’s really important, which is the athlete.
Samson :
So your goal is really to find those small things that other programs across the country may not be doing and help you find that edge.
Justin McKenna :
100%, 100%.
Samson :
Yeah, I love that. mean, and one of the things too is, again, I’m very familiar with that. When I first got here, we didn’t have a fuel cart. The strength coach never went to practice. There was no, like think we had, we ended up having weekly meetings because that was the only time that the head coach and the strength coach would talk. And so then after my first year here, he was like, we don’t have to have these meetings. I see you every day. I’m like, yeah, it’s easier, right? But I think one of the things I always ask myself is like,
Justin McKenna :
Yeah.
Samson :
If it’s something I really don’t want to do, is this going to truly help the team win or not? Even if it’s 0.001 % that could help us win, then why not do it? Because you never know what game comes down to what possession or what percent you need. But ultimately, I think it makes it a lot more ⁓ valuable when you end up winning, because you’re working your tail off to do everything that you can. And I hate losing. And a lot of times, like,
Justin McKenna :
you
Samson :
losses cannot be pointed towards the strength coaches. But I think a lot of strength coaches can relate to this is, you when you lose, you feel like it’s your fault. You know, there’s there’s definitely things that happen in the game. You could go back to one possession where somebody took a charge and you know, it’s it’s okay. Well, they didn’t sell it well enough and they’re not strong enough to do it. So then that’s why I got called as a blocking foul. And then we lost the game because of that, right? Like small things that are just completely nonsensical. But I think if you are driven, you can kind of get in your head with that. So
I appreciate doing all the extra work because it helps me feel better about winning and losing and then hopefully contributing to the team. ⁓ I love the breakfast card with the guys too, because I think that’s such an easy touch point ⁓ and free breakfast for you out of it too. It’s not a bad deal.
Justin McKenna :
take it. the
hidden benefits of Along with the free gear, you get a free meal. but yeah, you know, it’s funny, the first, when I first started here, when we first started implementing going to breakfast with the players, you know, the athletes in the dining hall would look and be like, what’s the coach doing up here and all that. And now it’s like, see my athletes and it’s like, hey, what’s up, Jost, how you doing, man? So it’s become sort of like this thing of like,
Okay, okay, this is what basketball does. okay, just as up here with with men’s women’s basketball, like, just, again, sometimes eating the meal, sometimes just poke my head in just to make sure like, okay, these five players have breakfast at this time, because they got class a half hour after. So let’s just make sure like, they’re there have been there. Our players and Conrad admittedly, if I’m being
Being a fan of the show and hearing some of your stories that you’ve shared too, like you’ve told me the story about, or you’ve told the story about, you know, being at an 830 walkthrough or 830 practice or film and players and coaches being like, what are you doing here? ⁓ Admittedly similar situations, whether it’s film or walkthrough, whatever. And it’s so funny because players see that in small things like that.
It’s just another win for us to be like, okay, like, I know Justin or I know Connor has been invested in me in that. So if he’s asking me to get up and go to breakfast before class, like, it makes that conversation a little bit easier where it’s like, hey, man, I got stock in this, like, I’m invested in this, I’m invested in you and into our program.
let’s have a little, there should be a little give and take here. And once you explain it like that, oftentimes it doesn’t need an explanation, but if you need to explain it like that, it’s usually a pretty easy conversation.
Samson :
Yeah, absolutely. I I literally remember at that 830 walkthrough, like one of the players was like, you’re dedicated. That’s why I love you. You know, like joking around, but you know, there’s some truth behind those words and it does make those conversations a lot easier in the long run. How do you feel like the perception of strength and conditioning has changed since you’ve implemented these changes? Because ultimately in my experience, I feel like, you know, we’ve really tried to change what the strength and conditioning department can provide and what it can look like.
as you go across the years and start to leak in more and more stuff that could be beneficial, how do you feel like the perception’s changed for your experience?
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, no, it’s a great question. ⁓ For me, just for some context of this position, this position is only four years old. And so I’ve been here for three of them. There was a coach here before me for the first year. So I think before that, was like, but men’s basketball was just one of the Olympic strength and conditioning coaches teams.
And so it’s just like kind of in the weight room, maybe like I believe warm up for practice and that was kind of it. And so now it’s like you’re adding all of these layers in terms of adding technology and adding these nutrition components and really just being there and being present, whether it’s at practice, travel.
We wearing the sports science had nutrition hat. I think and again, I think the testament to you know my title changing when I got hired here was strength conditioning basketball strength conditioning coach and now it’s head of basketball performance because I think performance in this realm is a little bit more all encompassing of the nutrition piece to sports science piece again all the credit to coaching staffs and the administration. But yeah, I think the perceptions change greatly and I think.
Some of the guys, even jokers, like they almost view me closer to an assistant coach than they do a strength conditioning coach because, you know, my presence, like being present on the court and ordering food and traveling. So I probably be closer to an operations guy as well as a strength coach too, which I’m sure you can relate. Yeah.
Samson :
For sure. Well, I’ll
say this, and you actually bring up a really interesting point and why I think it’s so valuable is I think of guys like Matt Aldridge, who when he was at Furman ends up getting a assistant coach job, right? Or so I think he might’ve been associate head coach. I mean, at some point for him, right? Who was a strength and conditioning coach who was able to then relay that position into what would be kind of the higher tier jobs because ultimately strength and conditioning is an assistant coach job.
Justin McKenna :
Mm-hmm.
Samson :
I mean, if you’re being a hundred percent realistic, what, 25 % of my day is lifting. 75 % of it is talking about guys, how we can support these guys, having conversations with the players, ⁓ know, doing the nutrition stuff, doing the performance piece. Like ultimately a lot of our role is based around helping the team, not necessarily focused on just the strength and conditioning aspect. So I appreciate what you’re doing. And I think it’s very valuable for everybody else to understand that.
this is a way that you can help kind of bring legitimacy to the profession. You I think sometimes we still get stuck a little bit in the Ehrenfeld who I love, you know, and I have no disrespect to, but like the mustache on the sidelines and yells up and down and everybody thinks that’s the strength coach. That’s what he does. You know, he’s the hype guy and he just does the weightlifting versus, okay, this is somebody who can come in and profoundly impact the team. think of guys like Darby Rich, who is over at Texas A now who
gets hired because of his ability to impact the team and have conversations with players that other coaches can’t necessarily have. Like that’s literally one of the selling points when he interviews for a job and he doesn’t interview really, he just gets recruited and says yes or no if he wants a job. So I think that’s very important because I think it helps raise the level of profession. So I appreciate that.
Justin McKenna :
Sure.
Yeah, no, it’s ⁓ like we kind of talked about earlier. It’s just doing the stuff behind the scenes and making sure you know coach Griffin and the coaching staff and obviously the players ⁓ and coach Woodruff and his staff and make sure everyone is supported ⁓ and just kind of being there, just being there, being present and how can you continue to improve the program and keep less things off of the head coach’s desk.
to make sure that the program’s running as smooth as possible. So yeah, just try to be as supportive as possible.
Samson :
Well, and the last point too that I was really interesting that you brought up was kind of having to do the nutrition, sports psych, sports science. Like one of the things that I think is really beneficial about having to do all those things is if you make it to a power four one day or, you know, if you decide to stay at Bucknell, you’ve already got the experience and you can continue on for 30 more years and have a great system. Right. But ⁓ if you go to another program,
where ultimately they have a lot of resources and they have a dedicated sports psychologist and a dedicated dietician for each team. All of a sudden it makes you appreciate their job a little bit more and allows you to focus on the strength and conditioning piece a little bit more too. But I had the reverse role. I was super spoiled at Texas Tech with women’s basketball. We had a sports psychologist for just women’s basketball on another team. We had a dietician for just women’s basketball on one other team. And so I didn’t really learn these tools. And then I got to App State.
And all these guys were asking me questions that I wasn’t very well equipped for. So I appreciate going from the opposite side, having a little bit less resources and then learning how to maximize those. And then once you get to a different spot, it’s almost like, all right, well, I’ve got everything I could possibly ever need. Why do we have this extra money in the budget? There’s no equipment that I could possibly need.
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, no, it’s a, that’s a good problem to have. I think, I think, I think what’s been cool here is like seeing the progression of like when I first got here, my first, my first day of being employed at Bucknell was the first day of official practice two years ago. So talk about drinking out of a fire hose and you just, you you take everything in and you kind of just, you know, start to just kind of see how things are running. I remember like our breakfast.
Samson :
Yeah.
Justin McKenna :
was like, I think it was just the coaching staff was pumped because like providing breakfast right on site instead of the dining halls right across the street from the facility. I remember it was like.
French toast and sausage and it was like drenched in maple syrup and I was like from my nutrition brain like the the light starts blinking where it’s like okay like this could be way better but everyone was so pumped because we could get breakfast at the facility instead of like having the guy shower and walk across the street.
And so now it’s progressed to like, you know, more quality, more quality protein sources and less artificial sugars and, and just like a better product that we can provide these players post-practice, like when they got to go to class and might not have the time to walk to the dining hall. So like small things like that you recognize it’s like, dang, like in three years we’ve really come a long way and like.
really move this program forward. So it’s like small wins like that where it’s like, appreciate, know, again, I’ll say it again, administration, head coach, coaching staff, like their support of everything that we do in terms of strength coaches and, and wearing these different hats, I think is like, makes the job even more appreciable because at end of the day, like people are seeing the value and showing it.
Samson :
Yeah, well, it can only happen if you have the head coach’s support, right? Because if they don’t support you, then ultimately, you’re wasting your time. And you’re wasting the head coach’s time because if you guys can’t agree on these things, then the players aren’t going to care. And they’re going to always side with the head coach because that’s who recruited them and who they chose to play for. So ⁓ that’s a very, very critical piece. I crack up at the French toast story because I think back to ⁓ two years ago, was the first year I fully traveled with men’s basketball.
Justin McKenna :
100%.
Samson :
And we had a weight loss guy who I’m very close with who’s awesome. He lost like 35 pounds. Like he’s the man, know, he’s that my players don’t listen to the podcast. I could say he’s my favorite player, right? You know, like we get along very well. ⁓ And so then this was about halfway through travel season, right? And ultimately the coaches were like, Hey, we collect phones at night at like 1130, just so they’re not FaceTime and their girlfriends up all night and everything. And they were like, Hey, come collect phones with us.
Justin McKenna :
Ha ha.
Samson :
And so was like, all right. So we went out in the rooms and everything and they have a snack room that was with the managers. Okay. And so we go out there and this weight loss guy, we stopped by his room and he went to go grab his phone. And I kid you not had to move a mountain of like Oreo and rice, crispy wrappers and everything just to get to his phone. Like it was literally buried underneath like the discards of all the candy he was eating. And I mean, I almost passed out in the room. I couldn’t handle, I was like, what the hell are we doing?
And so then the snacker moved to my room after that. And then we kind of made some better decisions. Yeah. And then this past year was the first year where I was like, all right, we’re to go full blast, like everything that I want a hundred percent. That’s going to be in here. And we’re going to get rid of all the stuff that I don’t want. And the guys were pissed. Like they couldn’t, they were so upset. was like, you know, beef jerky, smart pop popcorn, know, like stuff, stuff that’s just ultimately better, ⁓ you know? And so the guys freaked out.
Justin McKenna :
It’s a good move.
Samson :
And then after a couple of weeks, all of sudden they found out, well, you know, I really liked those yogurt covered strawberries that you got us. Can we get some more of those? Like they find out that it’s really not nearly as bad as they thought it was originally. So the small changes can make a big difference in the long run too.
Justin McKenna :
⁓ yeah.
I love
Samson :
Yeah. Do you travel with both teams?
Justin McKenna :
⁓ Non-conference, it kind of depends on the schedule as you know. Games are on different days, so it just kind of depends on what’s going on. ⁓ In conference play, I do not travel. ⁓ Same game, one team’s home, one team’s away, same game day. So I’m usually pretty landlocked at the beginning of the year, at the beginning of the new year essentially when conference play starts.
Samson :
Yeah, yeah.
So how do you balance all of this? Because I mean, you mentioned it earlier, you’re having conversations at Duke about organization and being on top of your stuff. And this is not an easy job to help balance yourself and be organized. And on top of that, too, there’s, you know, I know from experience that there’s not a lot of personal time, you know, and a lot of time off, especially in season, because on the days that men’s basketball could be off on a Sunday for the first time in weeks, all of sudden women’s basketball has got a game or practice, you know.
What are the techniques you use to help balance this?
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, I mean, I think first things first, it’s like you got to be organized. You got to manage your time really well. I used to like sometimes I still fall in this trap, but like from a programming standpoint, I’ll sit at the computer and stare at like two exercises and I’m debating for an accessory block at the end and I’m like, okay, this stuff does not matter. And I just burned however much time thinking about it where it’s like, just be super efficient with your programming, super efficient with your administrative stuff in terms of
ordering food, programming, looking at, you know, post practice numbers from player data or poll or whatever. Just try to be as efficient as possible so you can have a little more time to either step out of the office for a second and give yourself five minutes for yourself or get something else done. Good rule of thumb.
Shout out Ken Knox at Wake Forest. When we were at Kentucky, he taught me, he said, if it takes five minutes or less, just do it right then and there. And so for me, I wish I’d remind myself of that, where it’s like, okay, like if it’s something super simple, like shooting a brief email or whatever, let’s just knock that out right then and there. Just to keep the to-do list, not crazy. And that helps me stay organized and kind of flow a little bit too. But yeah, Connor, you’re right. I mean, some days here, it’s like the men have Monday,
Monday, sorry, whatever, Monday, Friday off and the woman have Tuesday, Sunday. And so you sometimes you catch yourself at the facility even if it’s for two hours for a practice. You know, there’s not many off days this time of the year, but I do appreciate that, you know, conference play a little bit more of an organized schedule and then pretty much from May until really when school starts August.
There’s some time where the coaches are like, if you don’t have to be here, get the heck out of here. They’re super supportive. You take a vacation for yourself or you go visit family or spend time with your partner. So yeah, they’re super supportive of all that. I think, again, there’s certain points of the year where it’s like, listen, you gotta put the work in. This is one of those times of the year where games are on crazy days, travels all over the place, MTEs, different tournaments, different out of conference opponents where it’s longer travel.
So for us, it’s just kind of staying organized and just stacking good days one day at a time.
Samson :
Yeah, my wife is very familiar with non-conference. It’s not the time to schedule any friends visiting or family coming in town because ultimately there’s not going to be very much time. But then once we get to conference play and we have Sundays off and the sun melts, I mean, it’s glorious. It’s the best thing I could ever ask for.
Justin McKenna :
Yeah,
it’s a great schedule once you get to those consistent game days every week.
Samson :
Absolutely electric, yeah. And my wife is a lot happier too, so that’s always good for the household as well. ⁓ So you obviously have worked with basketball, very specifically a lot of your career. What are the key things that you look at when training the basketball athlete?
Justin McKenna :
for sure.
Yeah, I will say first, the big rocks are going to stay the big rocks. think for me, know, my internships and graduate assistantships, you know, working with a lot of Olympic sports. Part of that is obviously learning the foundational movements that have stood the test of time.
In any program, it’s going to be, there’s going to be some form of squatting, there’s going to be some form of hinging, upper body pushing and pulling, lunging, some sort of single leg movement. ⁓ There’s going to be always an element of that in our programs.
how that looks for each player is different. And I think particularly with our men’s basketball program here, like I have five foot eight and I have seven foot. And so there’s a lot of differences in terms of anthropometrics, in terms of body types. And so everything looks a little different for everybody, which is honestly something for me, like the individualization piece ⁓ I’m kind of learning through, I’ve been learning through, especially since I’ve been here, where…
Where I really start to get curious and what I’ve noticed lately is our players are super curious. They’re super curious. ⁓ have high school kids coming from high school kids coming from other schools where they really are into certain styles of training and they’re in or they’re sending me more. You know training clips of NBA players where they’re doing certain techniques and for me.
I’m very open minded. I’m very rooted in a few things that I know are important. Squatting full range of motion, full range of motion pull ups. ⁓ Certain things that for me, for your sake, they need to stay in the program.
But there’s also certain things where it’s like an accessory, sex accessory circuit, maybe a pre lift or activation circuit before the lift starts, where let’s ask, let’s have some autonomy, let’s have some choice. So like if someone sends me a split squat isometric variation that they see Shay Gilders Alexander doing on Instagram, maybe we can.
Add that or an element of that into your warm up or into your accessory. Maybe not that exactly. Maybe we can regressive or progressive context always matters with these things. you and once you explain the why of maybe why they’re doing that or maybe why I’m doing a certain thing, ⁓ they’re usually on board with it. There’s really no fights in terms of the program. But for me, I want to give these guys a chance to these guys to a chance to feel like they have a say in their program.
Because at the end of the day, like if they’re more invested, if they feel like they have a stake in what we’re doing, they’re going to give better outputs. So for me, I really appreciate the curiosity from the players and I’m never going to be the coach that’s like.
It’s my way or the highway. We’re doing X, Y, Z like from the warm up to the accessory block. Like this is how it is. Like I want to give these guys a chance to feel like they have a say. Now some of these some of these players. They’re like coach whatever you want like I really don’t have a particular thing. A couple exercises I feel I feel good doing, but I’m on board and don’t get it twisted like every one of the 28 players I have.
If I was like, hey, we’re going to do this, they’ll be like, you got to coach like no problem. But I do feel like in today’s world, like even from my first year here to this year, I have more players who are more curious about different parts of training. I think the sports training, the sports performance world as a whole, I think is growing, I think is evolving. And again, there’s a lot of stuff on the internet where I’m like, I really don’t think we should do this. And here’s why in my head, I’m like, there’s no freaking way.
Like this is too fluffy, this is too, you know, out there for me. And I explained why obviously in a more professional matter. But there are some things where it’s like, hey, like, I can get with that. Like I can get with that as part of a warm up or an accessory. And I think it shows them that like I’m a little more open minded.
and they’re a little more invested. So I would say again, big rocks, autonomy, and then like small things, you know, like I’m not the drill sergeant in the room. I’m not, I’m not the guy who’s kicking guys out. Let’s have conversations as to why you may be a couple of minutes or a couple of minutes close to lift time where it’s like, Hey man, like let’s be on top of it. And again, that creates more conversations in terms of
⁓ If you’re really stressed out about something and you’re coming from a test and you’re running late, let’s have that conversation or let’s talk about what’s got you stressed or ⁓ has got your mind going somewhere else because you’re not obviously locked in here. So I think just treating these athletes like humans and just kind of making sure that they feel like they have a choice are a lot of big tenants of mine.
Samson :
Yeah, I really appreciate what you say, especially about both of those factors. The first one was a lesson I had to learn, which was I used to get so upset when players would send me videos of guys training or doing things that, in my opinion, wouldn’t fit in my program whatsoever. And I’d get pissed if I’m being quite frank. And then I would talk with the players. And my conversation with them was just shutting it down and just saying, no, this is why we wouldn’t do it. This is why it doesn’t work. And I would explain the why.
But after a while, like I just realized, okay, I asked these players to trust me a lot, right? And I asked them to buy into what I’m selling. And if I’m just gonna kind of be a my way or the highway kind of guy, it’s not gonna work out well. And they’re just not gonna be as bought in. Now, are they never gonna listen to me again? No, is it like this big drastic change I’m making that’s gonna infuriate them? And then they’re gonna say, well, screw Connor, I’m never gonna do his workouts and I’m not gonna buy in what he’s doing. That’s not correct.
At the same time, one day I kind of just was in a better mood, I guess somebody sent me something and very similar to what you did. I was like, all right, you’ve got we’ve got open hours at this specific time. You want to come in and do it during open hours. Let’s do it. And then we ended up doing whatever it was. can’t remember. was definitely some floating heel type activity that, I typically don’t put in my program and we ended up doing it. And, you know, he loved it. And then it helped build our relationship and then we could have more open conversations. And then it made it easier for me to talk about the things that
I felt like really didn’t move the needle from a training standpoint, but then also allowed him to say, okay, well have some autonomy in what we’re doing. I think it could really kind of help transform your relationship, especially in an era where that social media stuff isn’t going away. There’s no, okay, all of a sudden Instagram shut down and nobody’s going to post their videos of their extremely unique exercise to get views anymore. It’s only going to get more prevalent. And so I think you kind of have to adapt to the times with that. So I appreciate your viewpoint on that.
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, no, for sure. And like you said, I don’t think this stuff’s going away in terms of, you know, trainers posting content and athletes seeing it and whatever they like. You know, they’re going to send our way. And I think it’s up to us as not even basketball strength coaches, but everywhere in the strength and conditioning community where it’s these players, like some of these players, it’s like you.
You gotta listen like like you need like you need their buying whether it’s like a senior senior leader or someone that you know is an impact player like.
Everything kind of rolls with everything kind of rolls with them in terms of like their the energy they bring to the team and making sure that you have your leaders on board and just kind of sort of playing that game a little bit in terms of like, okay, I’m going to listen to you and and kind of hear you out. And maybe we can install this. at the end, but also we’re going to do X, Y and Z. And I need your best effort. And usually that’s usually, again, an easy conversation. Another thing I like in terms of our training is finding points in the year to get our athletes
out of the weight room. ⁓ Using different environments. Bucknell’s athletic facility is really unique. Everything is in one building. It’s one giant building. And so we have ⁓ a very nice wrestling room with wrestling mats. have a full size Olympic size pool.
We have racket ball, we have pickleball, tennis courts right behind us. Everything’s kind of in one sort of area. And so for me, especially like post-season time, like April, like in the springtime, summertime, we try to get these athletes out of their environment. And so for me, like women’s basketball, last spring we’ve done like pickleball or tennis as a warmup. We have a good bunch of rackets and we just, again, honestly, they might as well hold
the racket upside down, some of them like, like it’s not pretty, but again, they’re moving around, it’s fun, they’re smiling, they’re laughing, they’re out in the sun, which I think is all viable to me, especially like in a warmup, it’s kind of what we’re, what it’s all about. We’ve used the wrestling mats as, you know, like a gymnastics sort of learning your body in space, proprioceptive sort of warmup in terms of just kind of, you know, getting your body in different positions, whether it’s isometrics or like very low level gymnastics, like crawling.
crab walks, low like tumbling exercises. ⁓ And we’ve also used the pool. We use the pool throughout the year as well. think the pool is like a super undervalued tool. I’ve never had. ⁓
pool like as close here. So like I wasn’t super familiar, but the more I’ve done it, like the guys love it terms of just like low impact conditioning, ⁓ unloading your body for like maybe it’s a rehab case where like you can get some plyometrics or some running done in the pool. ⁓ So I think it’s all been helpful. And again,
Getting out of the weight room walls, I think, has been really impactful for our athletes in terms of, okay, Justin’s not just a weight room guy. We talked about the nutrition and sports science and being present at practice and games, but also thinking outside the box in terms of, okay, we’re gonna do this. It’s different. There’s a reason behind it. There’s a why behind it, obviously, but we’re gonna do this. And I think that…
builds more credibility to showing that you’re changing the environment, you’re mixing it up. Because again, these athletes, they’re in the same building, surrounded by the same walls, 10, 11 months out of the year. any chance we can get to get them out of those situations and still get quality training or whatever the purpose is, I think it’s a win.
Samson :
Yeah, well, you’re teaching them life skills too, right? I think about my league and a lot of those players will raise their hands if you say, you want to play in the NBA? And unfortunately, in the three years I’ve been here, we’ve had one guy who signed a two-way. And then outside of that, a couple of guys played overseas.
Excuse me, my goodness. Ultimately, a lot of these people are not able to continue to play basketball as a professional career for the rest of their lives. And so at some point, the ball is going to stop bouncing for everybody. And what do do to stay physically active? What are the things that you can do that you can get exposed to and find out that are really fun? I remember we did boxing one time as conditioning for one of my players. And I’m a terrible boxing coach, but she ended up taking a couple of classes after.
She finished playing basketball and then now she goes like once a week and it’s just something fun that can kind of help her stay Physically active. So I think those are really valuable ⁓ skills that help expose them to
Justin McKenna :
Yeah, no, I love that too. think boxing, we do boxing in the summer like one day sort of like break it up. The coaches are out recruiting and I it’s usually me and our director of ops take the take the team to a local boxing gym. We do a workout, so it’s it’s cool. That’s that’s a great. That’s a great one.
Samson :
Yeah, yeah. Well, Justin man, thank you so much. I really appreciate you getting on here and helping me remember the days of men’s and women’s basketball brought back a lot of good memories. Because it was fun when both teams win now. That’s like the best week of your life. It’s very fun. Yep, absolutely. So I appreciate you ⁓ bringing me back to those days and sharing your knowledge with us. If somebody wants to follow you on Instagram because you have some great content, ⁓ what’s your username? What’s the best way to find it?
Justin McKenna :
It’s the
Sure is, at the jackpot those weeks.
Yeah, on Instagram my handle is Justin McKenna underscore and that’s really the best way to get in touch.
Samson :
Awesome, man. Well, Justin, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Justin McKenna :
Connor, thanks so much man, appreciate you having me.
Samson :
Absolutely.
