S02-E209 Relationships Make the Career with Michael Tucker

S02|E209

Relationships Make the Career with Michael Tucker | Samson Strength Coach Collective

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Connor Agnew: What’s going on Samson Strength Coach Collective listeners on today’s episode? We have Michael Tucker, strength and conditioning coach for baseball and men’s tennis at Liberty University. Michael, thank you so much for coming on, no, absolutely. You’ve got a powerful name here. We were just talking about this pre show. There’s another Michael Tucker within strength and conditioning. Maybe you two are meant to be in this path.

Michael Tucker:
Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Yeah, well, he went a couple of years ago. He reached out to me just like a cold DM and said, hey, nice name. That was our first communication ever.

Connor Agnew:
That’s awesome. Has

there ever been any confusion like people reach out to you thinking that you’re him? Okay, thank goodness.

Michael Tucker:
no, no. ⁓

but there was one time, like my, one of my bosses had a different job. He was trying to talk about like the sprint timber warmup and he goes, yeah, that, the guy who wrote sprint timbers, they got the good one. What’s his name? What’s his name? And I was like, like me? And he goes, no, no, not you, but not you. So

Connor Agnew:
Me?

That’s awesome. Yeah, luckily there’s no other Connor Agnes. There’s one soccer player, but we look very different. So I’ve never had to deal with the confusion piece, which is always nice.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Well, do have a there’s a baseball player from the late 90s named Michael Tucker. He played for the Royals and the Braves, so. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
look at that. There you go. So you’re a professional

baseball player. You started as for Intemper and now you are a Liberty strength coach. That’s awesome. There you go. All right. Well, can you just break us, break it down for us your past career and then what’s brought you to your current position?

Michael Tucker:
Yes, full circle.

Yeah, so when I graduated undergrad, I actually did my first internship here at Liberty. I did it on the football side. And all that stuff is is is not here anymore, but so that was my first intro to strength conditioning with Dom Staszinski, who’s now at Auburn. So it was there for a summer for the summer of 2019 and I really wanted to get into into baseball. So I interned with Zach Dakin and that staff down at Texas Christian University. And then right before.

In 2020, I did my graduate assistantship at Concordia St. Paul for just under two years. I was in the D2 program in St. Paul, Minnesota. And then my first full-time job, I was an assistant at Bridgewater College, Division 3, about two hours from here in Virginia. I worked there for three years, one as the assistant and then two years as a director at Bridgewater. And then in Bridgewater, we actually didn’t work in the summers, like June and July off.

get out, see you never. Yeah, so that was interesting. So was able to do an internship with James Madison football. So I did that for the summer of 22, became the director at Bridgewater. And then I got the opportunity here at Liberty on the Olympic side with baseball and men’s tennis.

Connor Agnew:
Wow.

That’s awesome. Where are you from originally? Where’d you grow up? Virginia? Okay.

Michael Tucker:
So I’m from Virginia, which helps. About two

hours north of here, one hour south of DC.

Connor Agnew:
Okay. Awesome. Well, what, you know, I’m always curious about this too, because it was advice that I was given early on in my career. And I do think it kind of rings true is, is being willing to move a lot initially in your career and the start of your career to help build connections. Like I started off, I was in Philly, then Knoxville, then Lubbock and then, ⁓ Florham park, you know, wherever it was, right. We moved around a lot in the beginning of my career. Like what made you okay with that, with your different positions? How are you able to kind of say that you were.

Michael Tucker:
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
fine with doing that because that’s something I noticed with our GAs who are graduating now. They’re kind of like, well, I want to stay in North Carolina. And I’m like, well, there’s a finite amount of jobs in North Carolina.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah. So like the big thing for me is I just, I just wanted it. I just wanted to be a full-time strength conditioning coach like really, really badly. Like I know there’s other, other opportunities. I could have explored other things that I was good at, but like I didn’t care. Like I want, I really, I really want to be a strength conditioning coach. Like when I was like 20, 21, 22, I was like, Oh, that’s the coolest job in the world. get to a

You just get to scream, scream your face off all day, which is not true. But, ⁓ you know, so I just, like, like I just really wanted it. And then when I was looking at the Texas, like the internship at TCU and the GA and, and, ⁓ Minnesota, like they looked like really, really good opportunities. This looked like really good opportunities for me. So, I mean, just kind of packed up and moved halfway across the country. It was really easy. I didn’t have a couch. I didn’t own any furniture. ⁓

I didn’t have any pets. the one struggle is did have a long distance girlfriend who I ended up marrying this past September. So it all worked out. ⁓

Connor Agnew:
There you go. Yeah.

Well, there you go. Yeah,

exactly. And that’s so funny too, because, you know, it’s the ones who move are just very casual about it, right? Like early on in their career, like it’s the same with me. It’s just like people are always like, did you always want to go to Tennessee? I was like, no, you know, and then they’re like, ⁓ so Texas Tech was a dream job. And I was like, it was awesome, but it wasn’t my dream job. You know, it’s just like, I’m okay with moving and I’m okay with kind of undergoing that process because I knew it was going to get better. ⁓

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah, now I’m just curious. I’m asking this for myself selfishly. Like how long were you guys long distance for?

Michael Tucker:
Um, so long time when we first started dating, I transferred schools out of my undergrad because I was at a community college and then I went to Southern Virginia or Old Dominion like in the sub Virginia. So from the start, from 2017 to 2021, like, yeah, like more like four and a half, but yeah. Yeah. So it was, we started dating when we were 19 and then we

Connor Agnew:
Wow, four years long distance?

⁓ my goodness, that’s insane.

Michael Tucker:
moved in together when we were 23, 24. And now we’re married. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
And now you guys are married. That’s incredible. I’m

using your story now every time because the significant other is almost always one of the limiting factors too. That’s what I’ve noticed is like, well, you I don’t really know if I want to be long distance or anything. And we were, was long distance with my fiance for a year and a half. ⁓ And it’s just so funny because I’m like, it’s almost like a middle school relationships or something too, right? It’s like, if you guys can’t figure it out, then I promise you, it’s probably not your life partner.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yes.

Connor Agnew:
You know, like, it’s gonna work out with that person for a reason.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, I mean, it’s if you want something, you’ll you’ll find a way like I wanted, you know, the love of my life. I wanted that be a strength coach. I wanted I wanted it both. I found a way to get both done. So ⁓ she is an international banker and she works from home, which helps helps in both helps in both regards. ⁓ Yeah, she has two cats and she’s like, she’s like, ⁓ they’re like, they’re cute. I’m like,

Connor Agnew:
That’s awesome. And what does your wife do?

⁓ that’s awesome. Yeah, I’m sure that’s absolutely incredible. That’s awesome. Do you have any pets now?

There you go. That’s awesome so—

Michael Tucker:
Sure, I’m just not a big cat guy. mean they they they’re there we coexist in peace

Connor Agnew:
There you go. That’s all you have to

do. But it’s funny too, the only reason I ask that stuff is because it’s always like whatever safeguards we kind of had up as younger strength coaches, know, of like, all right, I don’t have any pets, you know, I don’t really hold onto that much stuff. I make it easy for myself to be able to move. All of a sudden you start getting older and then all those things start popping up pretty quickly.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

But I had a 2013 Kia Rio. So it’s like a little, like it’s like a one step up from Prius at the time. Right. So like the car was about as big as his office, maybe even smaller, but I moved from Virginia to Texas, back to Virginia and into Minnesota all in that car.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

⁓

yeah, absolutely. I’ve got my Highlander. That’s what I use too. And the most devastating story of my life is I somehow inherited like this 65 inch TV. That was like my pride and joy. ⁓ I loved it to death. And like, that’s like my one thing is like, love TVs. Like I love having big TVs because I’m blind and I just will not go to the eye doctor whatsoever. And so like the bigger the TV, the better, right? And so I remember moving down from this time was Florham Park to ⁓ Knoxville.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah

Okay.

Connor Agnew:
and I had that TV in the back and it was the only thing I brought with me. And then it somehow broke on the way during that drive. So when I plugged it in, yes, I noticed it was broken. And I swear that was the closest I’ve ever been to like just pure sobbing. I like literally shed a few tears. I was like, no, this is the only thing I care about. And now it’s broken. So the Highlander has not been so good to me in moves, but you know, it’s part of the process. There’s certain sacrifices you have to make.

Michael Tucker:
No.

my god.

Yeah, like you saw my sacrifices when I first moved to Minneapolis, it’s like Minneapolis, St. Paul right there. I lived in this basement with four bedrooms and like this tiny living room. And I had it was one of three, like four of us lived there. was me, Dante, and then two 60 year old women. Yes. Yeah. Like you walk down the stairs, like this kitchen is the size of like

Connor Agnew:
Really? ⁓

Michael Tucker:
like I guess two, like maybe three squat racks pushed together for you, for you strike coaches out there to see that, to visualize that. But yeah, the forums lived together and I like, I was a GA too, like, ah, I’m just gonna do my homework at home or homework in the office and go to sleep and then wake up and come right back. Man, I did not like it in there. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Connor Agnew:
my god.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

That’s a crash pad at that point. There’s no way I’m doing anything

else. Yeah. Well, let me ask you this too, because the motivation piece is always very interesting to me. How did you stay motivated in that moment? I know you said that you knew you wanted it, and so it just had to get done, but there’s definitely days that are difficult and they’re hard to keep going. What did you rely on to keep you going and understand that there was a greater goal at the end of this?

Michael Tucker:
Well, they kind of really started like I was an intern like intern grinds, you know, whatever. But when I was a GA like I was just really happy to be there almost every day, right? Division two. So you didn’t really do anything too much on the weekends. Like I went up to the games and stuff like that, like the baseball game, softball games and the entire two years I was there, there was not one football game because of COVID. And I left right before the season of 2021 started. So there’s like a year and plus, but yeah, you get it.

Connor Agnew:
LOWER

Michael Tucker:
So, but like, I just really liked being there. I really enjoyed the staff I was on. was me, Eric Overland was the director, and then Greg Robinson, and then one of our interns, Ted Ellsner, like the four of us, like we just got along really well. And we were an interesting dynamic of a group of four humans you would never see. But no, like I said, I just really enjoyed being there. And even when I got to Bridgewater, like when I got hired by Devin Young, like again, same thing. I just enjoyed working for him.

And like most of the players are great. Most of the sport coaches were great. So like I just always felt like happy going to work. Like even here, like it’s a completely different dynamic than from what I had at my division three job. The last, these past three years, like I just enjoy coming to work every day.

Connor Agnew:
Yes.

That’s awesome. So it’s just the pure joy of being a strength coach that keeps you going.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, that and but most more important that is good people. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
Oh yeah, absolutely.

Well, people can certainly make or break every single situation. And that’s where, you know, people will always ask me like, okay, what’s the next step? You know, like you’re an App State as a basketball strength coach, like what are you doing? And I was like, well, I’m just enjoying my time right now because especially within basketball, like your head coach is the one who makes or breaks your job. Like they’re the one who really ultimately determines like how much fun it is to be at work every single day. And luckily,

Michael Tucker:
yeah.

Yes.

Connor Agnew:
I’m with a head coach who makes it a lot of fun. It gives me a ton of autonomy. Like the only thing he’s ever told me about the weight room was he wants guys wearing shoes. And I’m like, look, if that’s the one thing you care about, then we’ll wear shoes. I don’t really care, man. You know, so those people can really truly, ⁓ you know, either determine the happiness or the longevity of your career. It’s crazy how much that can affect what you want to do.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yeah, no, it’s huge.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah. Well, I’m curious too, you you mentioned working with football and then switching to baseball and then actually coming back up, working with football again over at James Madison and then ultimately ending up with baseball. What was, you know, kind of your thought process in working amongst those sports and then what really drew you to baseball specifically?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, so I actually had football every job and internship of my career. Yeah, so TCU had one weight room, all sports. I know they’re making some changes now, but like it was a massive 20 rack downstairs, like maybe 14 to 16 racks upstairs, but it was one weight room, everybody, everything. So, ⁓ yeah, what drew me to baseball? Like I played baseball growing up. I didn’t play at any high level. The skill wasn’t there. I tried really hard, but like…

Connor Agnew:
⁓ okay, yeah, okay.

Yes.

Yeah, incredible.

Michael Tucker:
the skill development and the skill acquisition of baseball was not there. So, but I knew I just like I always watched baseball. I try to play I try to play like, like a slow pitch softball nowadays and stuff like that. But like I always just love the sport and the game of baseball. Like even being baseball like like two sports now, like just two, I’m able to be a baseball practicing games more often than I was. Like I’m just learning so much more about the game. Like from our practices and our game reviews and stuff like that. Yo, yeah.

Connor Agnew:
Yep.

It-

That part so exciting, right? Like I mean,

same with me with basketball. Like I suck. I’m so bad at basketball and like, but I always loved the sport. I grew up in Syracuse. So that’s like a, you know, especially right around the time that Carmelo Anthony was there and they won the national championship. Like those things are incredibly exciting and they were really good. And I literally remember they would shut class down for the big East tournament at the time. Like they would wheel in TVs, every single class ran a TV and we’d watch the big East tournament. Like, so.

Michael Tucker:
yes.

wow.

Connor Agnew:
I grew up loving basketball and I sucked at it so much that I was like, all right, this is obviously not for me. And I kind of fell off of it. But then when I got back into it as a strength and conditioning coach, the first year for me, it was more about like, all right, my head’s on fire. I’m trying to figure out what I’m trying to do as a coach because I haven’t really worked with basketball before. But then over the next three, four five years, it’s been so much fun to just fall in love with the sport. I’m sure it’s the same with you with baseball. What are some things that have surprised you about working with baseball?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, absolutely.

So in terms of like how I program with baseball and stuff like that, the energy systems development, like none of that’s really changed from like, well, like everything always changed. Nothing like shocked me, shocked the world there. But I guess the big thing for baseball, like for me, is just like the small little intricacies of the game. Like where your cuts are supposed to be, like what you’re supposed to do.

certain base running situations, less than two outs, you know, you got the corners, like you run the plays like that, ⁓ like what you’re gonna run if somebody steals, they do a delay or whatever. And then what qualifies is a quality of bat even if you get out, right? Obviously a hard hit, but they rob a home or like, all right, you had to, put a good swing on it, like you had a great at bat. Once you leave, once it like, look, rather the career always says, once it leaves the barrel, you can’t control it. Always take your best swing, so.

And then just stuff like that. It’s just like really cool to me. Like, well, I’ll never get in and face 95 ever, but.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah,

exactly. Right. And I’m never going to have to go up against a seven foot big man. You know, those things are nice for me too. ⁓ And so now baseball to me as an outsider does seem to be one of the most stat driven sports I’ve ever seen. Yeah, there we go. Okay. I’m glad I was accurate on that one. Like how do you, especially in our profession where we deal with a lot of numbers kind of stay clear headed, especially with testing and

Michael Tucker:
yeah.

Connor Agnew:
understanding not only does, you cause most of the numbers that I see related to basketball are going to be okay, force plate, uh, it’ll be GPS, um, or it’ll be, you know, norboard things like that. Whereas baseball, there’s a ton of technologies that are related to the sport as well too. Like how do you keep yourself clear headed and how do you keep your athletes clear headed when there’s all of these numbers getting thrown at them all the time.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

So when it comes to like my numbers, the things I take, like you said, the force plate and we use Brower for our sprints. I just kind of share them, share with them like that, that day’s data and only the things that are important. Like Hawkins has so many things on their force plates, you know, A to Z, right? So what I’ll do in the weight room is I’ll put a live leaderboard for jump height.

Connor Agnew:
Nice.

Michael Tucker:
and

it’ll be on the TV screen and then I’ll start competing. The first day I did that, think I had 39 guys, think I had like 20 PRs in jump inches. Yeah, and it’s kind of like tailed off and flattened out because I’ve been doing it every day. But the first day I was like, no, there ain’t no way you jump higher than me. And then they come back and do another jump and jump three inches higher. So was like, all why don’t you just try it the first time? But I was going say, the numbers they get, like the TrackMan stuff and…

Connor Agnew:
Wow.

Yep, So go ahead, sorry.

Michael Tucker:
Like the exit Velo, we have that up on our scoreboard in practice. So if you hit a ball 106, like you’re going to know you, you and everybody else can hit, know you hit a ball 106. Like the same thing, like if you hit a, if you hit a, weak line drive 75, like everybody’s going to know that like that wasn’t your best swing. That wasn’t your best contact. That wasn’t your best barrel. So, and then on the pitching side too, like the miles an hour is always up during practice nine, nine times out of 10. So how I kind of keep them clear headed.

Connor Agnew:
Wow.

Michael Tucker:
from my stuff is I always show the things that are important that that ⁓ they can understand and that are somewhat important, right? So we’ll do sprint speeds. I’ll post those in the group chat or the group me every week or twice a week, however often we do it. Same thing with the jump heights. Once the leaderboard’s over, like even if we have two different groups, I’ll post everybody so they can say who won, who lost, who needs to get better. But then when it comes to the baseball stats, I don’t do too much with it, right? Because I’m not a baseball coach. Like I know some things.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

Michael Tucker:
I know a hundred miles an hour is good, but I tried to have one of my players explain to me induced vertical. And then he just starts talking. like, wait, so if it’s zero, does the ball beat is going up? And he goes, yes. And then that’s the one thing I got right.

Connor Agnew:
Hehehehe

There you go.

Well, you know, I think it’s so interesting. I mean, especially to be kind of surrounded by these numbers, but I’m glad to hear the leaderboard was such a game changer for you because to me, that’s almost always been one of the things that like when somebody tries to sell me a technology, they’re like, well, we have the leaderboard too. And I’m like, I don’t really care about the leaderboard, you know, because for me as myself, my self, you know, as a coach, I’m like, well, ultimately they should be trying to compete all the time, right? But it’s made a big difference for you.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yeah, like in reality they should do track be outside. But like their favorite thing in the world isn’t putting their hands on their hips and jumping in place. Like their favorite thing is just swing a bat or throw a pitch or in your case, you know, pick up all the time.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly. Well, that’s also I’m glad to make such a big difference. Well, you mentioned something very interesting early on, and I want to definitely go back to it. You said that, you know, the people ultimately make the profession. And I think a lot of strength coaches can really identify with that statement. I mean, I certainly can myself like when I think about the best parts of my job, like you said, like, it’s cool to be able to be a rah rah guy. And it’s great that I’m

Michael Tucker:
Mm.

Connor Agnew:
you know, wearing a t-shirt and shorts today, you know, and I get to work out whenever I want. But like, ultimately what keeps me in it is the relationships that I develop with people. Like how important is the relationship aspect to you and how do you go about building relationships with your athletes?

Michael Tucker:
I’ve heard this cliche on every podcast that I ever listened to when they bring up this topic and I’m still going to say it. They don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. Yeah, I know it’s true. That’s why it keeps getting repeated, recycled, reused. So, um, I mean, I’ve heard that a hundred, a hundred different times on a hundred different podcasts from a hundred different people. And like you said, it’s true. So like, it’s just, it’s just an important value. Like you could be the worst programmer.

Connor Agnew:
Well, it’s true. It’s true.

Michael Tucker:
worst technique adjuster coach in the world. But as long as your communication skills and your relationships are good with your players and your coaches, they’re going to see value to a certain extent in what you’re doing. Right? there was like, I mean, I have to say that’s true with most professions, as long as you’re getting some sort of result, right? I you got to be good at the job to us to a certain extent. You can’t know nothing, come in here and then like get everybody, everybody gets hurt.

Everybody’s got tendonitis in their knees. You got 18-fold hamstrings, right? Like, it’s like, hey, what are we doing? But like, you have to have some skill to be, you know, to get to any level of this job of being paid. But like I said, the relationships are insanely important. Insanely important.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

And so, so how do you with, with placing such importance on it, like you said, like they have to know that you care. Like what are the ways that you do that with your athletes and how do you really go about developing those relationships so that they make the difference for you?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, so one thing I learned early on when I was a GDA was Overland called it the 10 minute rule. Right, like you just take 10 minutes of your of your day pre post lift, whatever and talk. Just talk to an athlete like you doesn’t have to be. It could be about whatever. Can you about the game? Could be about live could be about you know their their habits to make him better or just that like get to know them. Right like we got. We got 39 guys in the team. I think I get out 3039 fist bumps or high fives right before right before practice starts just to.

Yeah, that’s where they kind of see me before I start saying, here we go, 90-90, let’s get warmed up, right? I mean, you it just takes time, like anything. Like if you invest in your players, they’re going to invest back in you and then you’re going to get a better product in the weight room. And then if you get a better product in the weight room, hopefully it translates out into the field when it comes to all this stuff we do. But like the short answer is just take the time. Take the time to do it.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

And how do you stay intentional with that too? Because like one of the things that I heard another strength coach say recently in a group that we were in was, we were talking about pre-lift time and like how most of the time I will be in my office and like guys will come in for lift and a lot of them will come back to me and say, what’s up? And like, we’ll kind of talk a little bit, but with my women’s golf team, like they do, they never come back to the office, right? They will never ⁓ be there.

Michael Tucker:
Result.

Mm-hmm.

Connor Agnew:
because I think they might be scared a little bit, they might be a little nervous to come talk to me or whatever it is. And so I ultimately miss that time with them. know, like on days when you’re kind of feeling a little bit of lack of motivation, you know, how do you actually go out ⁓ and make sure that you spend that time of the 10 minute.

Michael Tucker:
That’s a good question. mean, when you think about things like, I was listening to a podcast, they were talking about like idle time, right? So if you’re always busy, like, or if you’re not busy, and you have like time to just relax, like that’s great. That’s very important. But if you’re like, if your time is slower, like, I guess the month of May for basketball would be like, I guess this time of year for you, like,

Connor Agnew:
Yeah, it’s as

slow as it gets, I promise you.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, if you’re not that busy and you’re just kind of chilling and relaxing all the time, like you’re doing a lot of scrolling and relaxing and like it’s easy to like relaxed and not think about it. But like for me, like when I’m busy, it seems to be like when I’m the most intentional, if that makes any sense. Because I know like, kind of being by yourself, it’s just kind of like weird, right? So ⁓ what makes it easy for me, like whenever people come in, like I have it, I saw them for the first time today.

Connor Agnew:
Hmm.

Michael Tucker:
Right? That may be my eighth hour in the weight room, it’s there first. So, I mean, it’s just kind one of those things, it’s kind of hard to figure out if that makes sense.

Connor Agnew:
Mm-hmm.

No, I totally understand. But I think you bring up a great point there too, because as strength coaches, there’s always an expectation that like you’re the hype guy, right? Or like you’re the one who can get people excited. you know, I mean, when we’re in season with basketball and I have a 6 a.m. lift with women’s golf the next morning after a game day, we’re there till 9 30. And then, you know, we’ve got to get the guys excited for a lift at 2 30, right? My hype is not necessarily there, you know, but I think that’s a great perspective for them is like, okay, well,

Michael Tucker:
Yeah. Yep.

Yes.

Connor Agnew:
These guys kind of rely on my energy a little bit to have a quality lift and they kind of expect it a little bit too. So that’s what I signed up for with the job.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

No, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, was kind of experiencing that like at my last position because we had 10 racks and 600 athletes and two full-time staff members. Yeah. So that was a bunch of like my first group was at six. My last group was at three 30 and it was almost every hour on the hour pretty much all day.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

Wow.

my goodness, that’s nuts. How did you keep your energy up?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, like,

oh, like, so my first day, like I just I did every group, even if I wasn’t on my team, just to like get acclimated with everybody on campus. And I was the most tired I think I’ve ever been after that first day. was September 6, 2021. It was a Monday. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

You were definitely most tired because you remember

the specific date.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, and

was there, I got there an hour before the first group. So I got there at 5am and then I stayed all the way to the end of the day, which was that day was 7pm. That particular day. was a long day. Yeah. Um, but when I was at that job, right, once I got a couple months, I learned to pace myself. So, which kind of sounds crappy because not everybody was getting a hundred percent. Not everybody was getting a hundred percent of me, which I did feel bad about, but everybody was getting, you know, like 80 % of me, if that makes sense.

Connor Agnew:
Mm.

Michael Tucker:
Which

is unfortunate because I had to spread myself thin because myself, I had 300 players. had football, like the biggest team football, all the way down to the smallest team equestrian, which had six women on it. So, but now that I’m here, when I have 49 total athletes across both my teams, I’m able to give a hundred percent to both teams, right? Which is good. I was able to pace myself and then I started doing that. And at the end of the day, like my first week or so here, I’m like,

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

Michael Tucker:
This is easy. I was able to reset a little bit, was really nice getting into this situation here Liberty.

Connor Agnew:
Hehehehehe

Well, just, I don’t even know. I wouldn’t call it unfair. I don’t think I think what would be unfair is if you gave one group a hundred percent and then he gave another group 15%, right? Because you were tapped out on energy from there. think it’s ultimately, if you have, you know, if you can give a hundred percent of your 80%, right? And then we can get into the, what is it like the anchorman? Like it works 60 % of the time, it works a hundred percent of the time or whatever, right?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yes.

If it were…

Connor Agnew:
Yeah, right.

⁓ But ultimately, like if you can give everybody the same level of energy, then that to me is what your true 100 % is. So I love the pacing aspect because that’s what really makes a difference is like, okay, how can I make sure I can be as consistent as possible too? And every strength coach isn’t the energy guy, but they should be consistent with how they approach the weight room every day. There shouldn’t be days where they’re super hyped and then super low. So I love your approach. I think the pacing aspect worked well.

Michael Tucker:
You were talking about the energy guy, right? So like when I was like, one of my first internships, right? The first day I just kind of like laid back, did exactly what I was told to. And I got pulled into the office by one of the GAs and he says, hey, like we need you guys in there coaching. And we’re like, all right. So, and again, this is 21 year old, you know, tuck, I turned a switch on and as soon as they come in, I’m screaming, yelling, jumping up and down. And then one of the full-time coaches is like, I heard him say to somebody else, like, man, this kid’s full of.

piss and vinegar right now. What happened?

Connor Agnew:
That’s awesome, but I’m sure you were his favorite guy because you were the one bringing the juice every day.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, so like so that that coach told me to turn it up and then this coach said it just give me 90 % of that. I’m like alright got it. Yeah, 80%. Now it’s been a couple years. I kind of found like this week’s spot.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah. Or 80%. And then as you do a hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that’s so natural for every strength coach because I was the exact same way too. ⁓ But it was funny because you made me think of another internship I had and while we’re interning there, I had already been there for six months and then a new batch of interns come in. And so they were asking me what everybody likes. And I just told them the same thing, like, be energetic, make sure you’re actually coaching. And so then we were doing half gasters that day and ⁓ the whole team’s running them. And then a couple of guys ended up throwing up.

Michael Tucker:
Mm-hmm.

Connor Agnew:
And so then one of the interns like screams out, I don’t know what possession says, he screams out, he’s like, run until you puke boys, you know, like, and he’s like 19, you know, like, and everything. And like every strength coach was like, shut up, like, you know, shut up and like screaming at him and everything. And he was like, my God. And he came up to me and I was like, he was like, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to, you know, cause like my job was to like.

Michael Tucker:
nice.

Connor Agnew:
coach these new interns up, because I didn’t mean to embarrass you. was like, no dude, that one was on me. Because I clearly didn’t know you, and I expected you to kind of have this under control, but you just said the most ridiculous stuff ever, and horrible. And like, if anybody outside of the program ever heard that, like it’s like immediately like, know, okay, these guys are terrible, and this is abuse within the program or whatever. Exactly, right? And so I was like, no, no, man, that’s my bad. And it was a quick lesson for me too. It was good to learn.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yes. Investigation. Here we go.

Yeah, we call that releasing demons at one of my previous stuff. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
there you go. Exactly.

It’s certainly what it is. I like that term. That’s you go. Release the demons. I love it. ⁓ And so again, the relationship aspect is so important, but I think there’s always people on teams that you may not get along with the most. You always get along with everybody, but there’s people who kind of struggle to build that rapport with and understand where they’re coming from.

Michael Tucker:
Yes, releasing daemons, not puking.

yeah.

Connor Agnew:
How do you approach that process when it’s not going the exact way that you want it to from a relationship development standpoint?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, so part of that is just feel and then 80 % again, here we go. There’s this 1080, 1080 10 rule that I was taught like 10 % of your guys are going to love you. They will fight for you. They would do anything for you. Anything you ask them to do. 80 % will do it and they won’t care if it’s you or somebody else next week, right? Now they’ll miss you. They’ll say bye, but like, whatever you move on. And the 10 % like it’s, and then you get the bottom 10%. You’re just like, all right, let’s get it.

like I’m ducked, like stuff like that, right? And that’s true in most situations. So what was the question again? Hold on. I was going somewhere with that.

Connor Agnew:
No, no, no,

good. Just build, just how do you actually work with your athletes when it’s tough to build that relationship? That bottom 10%.

Michael Tucker:
Yes,

yeah. So like, like I said, knowing who you got, knowing who your guys are, knowing who like, like which, which category they kind of fall into. Right. And then sometimes like if you struggling to build a relationship, like you have a relationship with everybody, whether it’s good or bad or neutral. Right. So it, and sometimes it takes a little bit more time to be built up. Like sometimes you need more than just the 10 minute rule I was talking about earlier. More than just the 10 minute rule I was talking about earlier. ⁓ you could just kind of invest a little bit more. And sometimes

they don’t come around. Like you’re one versus 40 or in football it’s one versus 120. Right? Like, so it’s not always going to happen. Like this is like, not everybody’s going to like it is what it is. But I mean, as long as they’re coming in and doing exactly what they asked, you asked them to do ⁓ in the weight room, on the field, like whatever you’re doing, like you’re good as long as you’re getting the results, right? But it’s just like I said, not everybody’s going to like you and that’s okay.

Connor Agnew:
Mm-hmm.

Michael Tucker:
That is A-OK. I mean, no.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

I think it

makes it even worse sometimes when you try to force that relationship even more. The most success I’ve had in those situations is honestly just giving the athlete space. Like, all right, I know you don’t really like me and you’re kind of pissed off at me right now, so I’m not gonna say anything to you for the next couple hours or days or whatever it may be because you just need some room to breathe. Yeah, and so I mean, I love that rule, the 1080 10, because…

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
I think it’s very true. When you said that there were specific guys I was thinking of on my team, I’m like, that’s one of the 10, 10%. And then I know some guys were the 80, I know some guys were in the bottom 10 % too. And I love the perspective on relationships here too. You always have a relationship with somebody. So how do you turn it into more of a positive relationship? And a positive relationship with one person doesn’t look the same as a positive relationship with

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

No, absolutely. Like, not everybody’s the same.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah, Okay, so relationships are a big piece of it. What are your other core principles as a coach? What are the things that you really hang your hat on or really believe in as a coach?

Michael Tucker:
Well, like kind of alluded to earlier is like being good at the job, being good at the profession, right? It’s like you do need to get in the door somehow. You can’t just like come in, start doing everybody on CrossFit or whatever, and then CrossFit fingers help they get better, right? That’s the, can’t do that. So you gotta be good. You gotta be good in position. The other thing is for me is, is loyalty, right? So like, like if you’re loyal to your players, they’d be loyal to you, like whether they’re here for one or five years, right?

Connor Agnew:
Mm-hmm.

Michael Tucker:
Because like, they’ll move on, or in some situations, I’ll move on. Like my longest job is three years. That’s not even a four year career. Right? So like even in the time that you’re there with them, you got to be loyal to them because you’re doing the best to help put them in the best position to win as many games as possible. So as long as you’re, you got to be loyal to them, get loyal to the staff, the sports staff. And if you refer to a strength coach, right, as a strength staff, you got to be loyal to them too. Because if push comes to shove and they got to have your back.

Connor Agnew:
Mm-hmm.

Michael Tucker:
and you weren’t loyal to them, it’s, that’s gonna be tough. It’s gonna be real tough. So those two are hugely important to me. If I had to pick two, it’s those two right there.

Connor Agnew:
Hmm.

Yeah. And so, okay, in today’s day and age with the transfer portal and, you know, it’s, I wouldn’t even say lack of loyalty. I just think it’s the system itself is set up for people to explore other opportunities very quickly. Right. ⁓ But, you know, the loyalty aspect is huge. Like, even if, like you said, somebody’s with you for a year, they have to know that you have their best interests at heart and that you want to see them succeed as much as possible.

Michael Tucker:
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Connor Agnew:
What are some ways that you really tried to exemplify that loyalty for the athletes and then how do do with your coaches too?

Michael Tucker:
Yes, like for the athletes, like, like not not for me in this situation, but in some situations, like if you lose, you get fired, right? Even like like like you, everyone is hurt all that. So like for them, like winning is the most important thing for anybody and everything all the time. So if you kind of relate everything back to winning and like that, that’ll be huge. So like that’s where the loyalty kind of comes into play here. Right. So like

If you’re like if the coach is in the situation, I’m only going to be every three more months. Just kind of do whatever right now, like three more months. That’s that’s a big chunk of the season. Alright, like let’s keep doing the job. Let’s keep doing things right. Let’s keep you know, attracting our metrics, making sure everything is good so we can be in a position to win. Right and same thing for the coaches too, right? If I were to like this is first year. Don’t plan to go anywhere next year, but. Like if it was like I was like coach and leave at the end of year, whatever like.

Connor Agnew:
Mm-hmm.

Michael Tucker:
I still want to finish out the year strong so we can do our best to win as many games as possible, right? That’s always the goal. that’s how loyalty kind of ties into that. Being loyal to them, not kind of just like, all right, I’m getting ready for the next thing. I’m just going to put it to the side right now. Like even when I left my last two jobs, I left as much programming as I could for the either new guy coming in or the guy taking over for me in the of time being, right? I kind of wrote out.

Connor Agnew:
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Michael Tucker:
the entire semester for my teams at Bridgewater before I left all the to December. And then same thing when I was in Minnesota, I kind of left all the way until the next hiring window for the next person coming in. So this is they can just have the programs and just kind of keep rolling through the programs and being loyal to them in that sense.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah. And I think being loyal to the university too is like you said, like just trying to leave it better than you found it. You know, like I’ll never forget when I first walked into this weight room, I was like almost appalled at how cluttered it was. Right. Like I was just like, how do you guys operate on this daily basis? So now we’ve set up a system where every single day the racks have to be reset every single day that has to be cleaned and the dumbbells have to be up, whatever it may be. Right. But I think that it ultimately makes a difference. And then, okay, well, I really want this technology. So what can we do to get this technology in here too? Right.

Michael Tucker:
Yes, absolutely.

yeah.

Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
And then letting other people, because I mean, look, trust me, I would love to sit here and say, I’m going to be AppState’s, AppState basketball strength coach for rest of my career. There’s probably going to be either one I get fired or better opportunity comes along for being a hundred percent realistic. So how do you stay loyal to university too? Is just trying to make it better than you found it.

Michael Tucker:
Right. No.

Yeah, exactly. I can’t say anything better than that.

Connor Agnew:
There you go. Excellent. Okay. And so then, you you mentioned a couple of podcasts and you mentioned, you know, basically your continuing education piece, but you have to be good at the job. Like what are some things as you kind of get into, all right, you’re past the stages of your career where it’s first full-time jobs, you know, now it’s okay. I’m, I’m still a young strength coach, but I’m trying to find ways to continually get better. How do you undergo that process? What are the things that you look to do?

Michael Tucker:
Yes.

Yeah.

Recently since I got in the last six months eight months of well that plus eight months since I got here I’ve been doing I’ve been talking to just the coaches on staff, right? My last time he was being the assistant. That’s it. Just the two of us, right? So there’s only so much you and him could talk about unless something something else pops up, you know, shout out Rob Gardner ⁓ Well, like the since I got here like talking to five different brains

Connor Agnew:
Hehehehehe

Michael Tucker:
Right? It’s like I’m one of six on the strength of listening staff and then we don’t see football too much. They’re, on the other side of things. Just kind of like anywhere else, but, ⁓ like just talking to them, right. And then kind of being open and honest about like what you’re not good at and like, like what you’re comfortable asking about, right? Like with this staff, I, I kind of, I love how like there’s nothing like too elementary, like not to ask that makes sense. Right? Like, like, like we don’t ask like, how do you squat? Like, no, like that’s.

But like programming questions, force play questions, anything like that, we kind of bounce ideas off each other and just kind of talk about is huge. The one big thing I was not good at was my warm up routine. I thought it was subpar. I thought it was awful. And we talked about it. was like, OK, I was right. This is bad. And then we had the whole staff meeting about like,

warm up exercise selection, of order of exercises for the warm up going from low threshold to high threshold actually getting them prepared like for what you’re about to make them do, whether it’s a whether it’s practice, sprinting, just a lift, whatever. that kind of that was one of the big things that helped me for that. And then the other thing is like I’m on the road now with baseball full time. I have a lot of a lot of downtime. So it’s been a lot of a lot of rabbit holes. I was able to go down on my own. So a lot of

Connor Agnew:
Hehehehe

Michael Tucker:
podcast, lot of YouTube, like presentations, stuff like that, like CS old CSC stuff that’s kind of kind of our NSE, all of it, I just got a fad and looked up at it. And then I got a ton of books, ton of ton of ton of books. I went down to read like a periodization rabbit hole recently. And I have like 18 books on my desk and my shelf looks like you got bombarded on. But I just was just a bunch of books. So I mean, like, what? I was like the biggest thing.

Connor Agnew:
That’s awesome though. What’s… Sorry, go ahead.

Michael Tucker:
that you can read as much as you want and you can listen to as much as you want. But if you don’t talk about it to help you understand it and ingrain it with other people, like you’ll still learn, but you won’t learn it at a good of a rate as you have when other other minds are around you, because like six minds are better than one. And I agree. I think that’s the most truest thing to the fullest extent.

Connor Agnew:
Mmm.

Yeah, I was just talking with another strength coach about that the other day. It was like, okay, as an intern, read Triphasic. Awesome. And then, okay, now it’s like, let me read the next book. Like, yeah, let me go to the next one so that I can learn this other system. And it’s like, no, no, no, you have to synthesize it. You have to actually run it yourself. You have to run it for athletes. You have to go read the book again after you’ve already done that so you can understand it better. There’s a process with books. It’s not just a, I’ve completed it, this knowledge is in my head, and now I’m a master of Triphasic or whatever.

Michael Tucker:
Yep. Now what?

Yes.

Yeah, the big one for me for that was Joe Ken’s tier system. Yeah, three to be like, okay, all right. It’s I think the actual title is the strength coaches playbook of yeah. Yeah. So it was like, all right, I read it. Total low upper. know everything. I know that my first move of my front, the upper upper body day was a pull up. I three sets of two. I was like, man, that a block took six seconds. Like what’s going on They’re like three by two. That’s that’s probably for 90%. Right. But

Connor Agnew:
Okay, there you go.

Yes, yep.

Hehehehehe

Yeah, exactly, right?

Michael Tucker:
90 % of the pull-up like and I didn’t have pull-up maxes and I had women’s soccer and everybody’s still using bands and pushing each other up on the my god it was a cluster man

Connor Agnew:
yeah, yeah. But

that’s why internships are so valuable too, right? Because where I interned at used the tier system. And so then, now I’m very familiar with the tier system and I’ll be honest, I haven’t even read the book, but I’m very, very familiar with the actual system because I’ve seen it operated at multiple different schools too. And so I’ve seen the spins and the twists that people have on it too with their own programming.

Michael Tucker:
Yes

wow.

Connor Agnew:
But that’s why the internship experience is so nice is because that’s where you get to actually execute those things and see exactly what each coach is doing. And that’s why what I love you, what you said about meeting with each assistant coach too, is like, just cause I’m an assistant coach now doesn’t mean that I have all the knowledge and only I can only teach the interns. Like I can teach the other strength coaches here and there’s a hell of a lot of stuff that they can teach me.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yeah, like one of our, then we’ll take turns doing intern presentations, right? So Anthony, that kind of oversees the internship. So he’ll do most of the, like we do one presentation a week, so he’ll do most of the 16, but like I’ll do one, Will do one, Matty do one, Danny does one, right? So it’s kind of take it off Anthony a little bit. So when Will did his one about plyometrics and he used the word job, I’m like, what’s a job? And like, and it’s it’s it’s a jump to a hop.

So I was like, was like, okay. And then he broke it down and then he started like demoing it like in our interim meeting room. I was like, okay. We’ll grab to a little athletic.

Connor Agnew:
There you go.

Yeah.

seriously, those, I swear when it’s like those intern meetings, when somebody else is running it, like you start to learn more stuff because they’re more open about it. And it’s like, this stuff doesn’t casually come up in conversation with us as assistant coaches. You know, it really comes up a lot more when that person’s in a teaching mindset. And so it makes a huge difference ultimately.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Even when I did mine, I just did basic speed development. I don’t think anybody was out there getting their mind blown or anything like that. But we have two full timers sitting in there during my presentation to the interns.

Connor Agnew:
Yeah.

Yeah, that’s great. And seriously, it just shows that it’s the staff who cares about each other and wants to see everybody else succeed and get better. Yeah. Well, Michael, man, I really appreciate you, brother. It’s been awesome to get to know you more ⁓ and spend some time with you. If anybody wants to follow you on Instagram ⁓ or kind of reach out, if they have any questions, what would be the best way to do that?

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, no, absolutely.

what is my Instagram yet?

Connor Agnew:
⁓

Mine’s easy. It’s strength coach Connor. That’s the only the best decision I’ve ever made.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah,

my last post was on November of last year, so I’m little de-active on it.

Connor Agnew:
⁓

You’ve got some stories though too. I’ve seen your stories. Yeah.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My Instagram handle is coach underscore Tucker one three ⁓ one through 12 was taken. ⁓ and then email would be my Liberty one ⁓ Tucker five four at Liberty dot edu. Yeah.

Connor Agnew:
Hehehehehe

Awesome, man, awesome.

Well, seriously, Michael, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate you.

Michael Tucker:
Yeah, I know, I’m happy to be here and I had a good time.

Connor Agnew:
Absolutely, me too. And I ⁓ am looking forward to reaching out in a couple of years and seeing how your relationship buds with the cats. We’re going to find that some more. Awesome. Well, thanks Mike.

Michael Tucker:Yeah,

All right, thank you.